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Old 11-12-2013, 20:27   #31
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Re: Two 30amp 125v shore power service to 50amp 125v boat input

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Originally Posted by morningstar10 View Post
But now that it's clear I wonder if there isn't an easier way? If I just had two panels, one from each of the two inlets, each with source selection, couldn't i wire each shorepower inlet to a different panel, the generator to both panels and if I needed to feed both panels from one inlet I could do it with a Y connector to the two inlets. is that what btrayfors was suggesting?

For simplicity, I would solve the problem by combining the 2 x 30 Amp shore power sources with a reverse Y adapter
Reverse "Y" Adapter | Marinco

Combining to one 50amp cable

Then beef up the main board shore power distribution breaker to handle 50amps @ 120v.

I also would not allow the Victron Multi to manage my shore power. (Too many eggs in one basket)

Here is my primary 240 V AC board showing slide lockouts for Shore/Gen/Invertor.
I keep my 70/3000 Victron Muti set on charge only when I am off the boat and if I need Invertor power it is only when I am on board and have lost the shore power.

As an aside towards simplicity and safety….I have now removed my inboard 50amp Marinco cockpit receptacle in favor of direct lug connections to a heavy duty Terminal Block in my engine room.

The 4 wire Shore cable (without Plug… but now with 4 eyes) easily slips thru my port side ER Vent intake and down to Terminal Block that is then wired via breaker directly to my Victron Isolation Transformer right beside it.

Takes just a few minutes more to connect but I like this as it keeps the shore cable out of cockpit, no more concerns of electrical shorts during wash down and I have a much better physical connection that I can monitor for heat as opposed to a plug.
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Old 11-12-2013, 20:58   #32
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The 360 panel was designed and installed by Matt Mortenisen and Chris Brignoli at Port Townsend a Shipwrights Cooperative. Super work and reasonable price.
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Old 11-12-2013, 21:08   #33
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Re: Two 30amp 125v shore power service to 50amp 125v boat input

Better description of the reverse Y's capabilities and limitations
167RYN
http://www.marinco.com/files/media/p...nco%20pg27.pdf
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Old 11-12-2013, 21:35   #34
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Re: Two 30amp 125v shore power service to 50amp 125v boat input

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Originally Posted by rcmpegasus View Post
The 360 panel was designed and installed by Matt Mortenisen and Chris Brignoli at Port Townsend a Shipwrights Cooperative. Super work and reasonable price.
Don't know either, but it's a fine looking panel.

Can we have a look behind the black curtain.

PTSC is a great group, we just had our upholstery, done by one of the members.

I'm on my 7th 360 panel this year.

Lloyd
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Old 14-12-2013, 11:45   #35
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Morningstar, as Flying Cloud indicated the load imbalance that trips an ELCI is a differential in current flowing in the Hot and Neutral wires of your shore power AC circuit. All current going in from the Hot should leave the circuit via the Neutral. As he stated if one of your devices has some inductance I suppose it might be possible to get more current flowing in the Neutral than Hot and vice versa. Nonetheless, I am not sure there is anything you can do about that other than change out the offending device (if you can isolate it) or pull the wires from the toroid to defeat the ELCI. Others likely know more about that than I do. Intermittent problems are inherently very difficult to isolate.

Another potential issue, one the ELCI was designed to protect, is current leakage from Hot to a local Ground. Not a direct short which would trip the standard breaker, but enough current leakage to electrify a metal enclosure or the water around your boat etc. In this case some of the current flowing in through the Hot would leave via Ground instead of the Neutral wire and there would be more current in the Hot wire. This condition will trip the ELCI. Just as you have experienced, I had intermittent ELCI tripping. I had an AC outlet in my galley mounted on the super structure of an exterior wall (trawler). In this location there was a chase for air flow to a blower in the galley. For some reason the outlet was not mounted in an enclosed box plastic box and the back side of the outlet was exposed to airflow and moisture in the chase (maybe ABYC does not require an enclosure). Depending on precipitation, humidity, wind etc. I was seeing intermittent tripping of the shore power ELCI. This of course never happened when I was there. I stumbled upon the way this outlet was mounted while replacing the galley blower with a much quieter version. I ended up moving the outlet and placing it in a sealed enclosure to eliminate the potential for moist air flow over the outlet. My theory was that the moisture on the outlet created a condition where there was enough conductance to trip the ELCI, but not enough to blow the breaker or the GFCI. This theory could be complete BS, but I believe I did see a decrease in the frequency of ELCI tripping.

My guess is that the ELCI protection is a good thing, but every time another monitoring / safety device is added it is certain to cause headaches. Good luck.
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Old 14-12-2013, 14:09   #36
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Re: Two 30amp 125v shore power service to 50amp 125v boat input

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pelagic View Post
For simplicity, I would solve the problem by combining the 2 x 30 Amp shore power sources with a reverse Y adapter
Reverse "Y" Adapter | Marinco

Combining to one 50amp cable

Then beef up the main board shore power distribution breaker to handle 50amps @ 120v.

I also would not allow the Victron Multi to manage my shore power. (Too many eggs in one basket)

Here is my primary 240 V AC board showing slide lockouts for Shore/Gen/Invertor.
I keep my 70/3000 Victron Muti set on charge only when I am off the boat and if I need Invertor power it is only when I am on board and have lost the shore power.

As an aside towards simplicity and safety….I have now removed my inboard 50amp Marinco cockpit receptacle in favor of direct lug connections to a heavy duty Terminal Block in my engine room.

The 4 wire Shore cable (without Plug… but now with 4 eyes) easily slips thru my port side ER Vent intake and down to Terminal Block that is then wired via breaker directly to my Victron Isolation Transformer right beside it.

Takes just a few minutes more to connect but I like this as it keeps the shore cable out of cockpit, no more concerns of electrical shorts during wash down and I have a much better physical connection that I can monitor for heat as opposed to a plug.
this gives you 30a of 240. his panel is 120. you'd have to redesign the whole panel for 240. (but now the gen is 120) devices can turn 2x30 into 1x50a but only if same phase. and the device will check for phase before combing the plugs.

actually that is a scary plug because it doesn't check phase. the good ones do. and would allow you to plug into 2 in phase 30a plugs. all the 120v stuff would work but you'd risk an under sized netreal with both hot liness in phase. though maybe they get away since the boat wiring should be able to handle 50a if you are using this plug. and you'd only end up with max 60a on the netreal of 2x30a 120 in phase.


easy way would be 2x 30 plug. 2x 30a main shore breaker. single gen breaker.

I would put a 2 way ac transfer switch on #1 panel. gen / ac1.

I would put a 3 way ac transfer swtich on #2 panel. gen / ac1 / ac2.

so you can power the whole boat off ac1 plug and ac1 main breaker (only 30a total) or both plugs. or gen. or half gen / half shore if ever needed.

split the gen cable to both switches. split the ac1 after ac1 main breaker to both swtiches. if 50a gen breaker wiring and switches would need to handle 50a.

you'd need 2x galvanic isolators.

not sure why you have a 50a elci with 30a plugs.
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Old 14-12-2013, 19:14   #37
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Re: Two 30amp 125v shore power service to 50amp 125v boat input

Easiest solution is another 30 amp inlet to a small panel with enough breakers for each heater outlet. I don't think any other way will be as inexpensive. And the new inlet will have its own return. Actually that is exactly what I am installing currently on an older 48' Chris Craft.
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Old 15-12-2013, 00:55   #38
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Re: Two 30amp 125v shore power service to 50amp 125v boat input

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Originally Posted by Le Tour View Post
....I will look into wiring the AC panel with two separate 30Amp circuits supplied by two separate cords.
We have an American Hunter Legend with one panel and two shorepower cables. It also has the ability to join the two AC outlets to one shorepower cable - with a safety lock.

Look at BLUE SEA systems to make sure you get it right.
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Old 19-12-2013, 15:13   #39
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Re: Two 30amp 125v shore power service to 50amp 125v boat input

Here are a few pictures of the back of the panels and the rollout mount. All of the inverters, chargers and solar are mounted on a pull out rack. The rack rolls out into the salon so it's all right there to work on.

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Old 19-12-2013, 18:26   #40
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Re: Two 30amp 125v shore power service to 50amp 125v boat input

Bob,

It looks like you got a real CLASS A job on that electrical. I love to see work done right.

Thanks for sharing.

Lloyd

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Here are a few pictures of the back of the panels and the rollout mount. All of the inverters, chargers and solar are mounted on a pull out rack. The rack rolls out into the salon so it's all right there to work on.
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Old 19-12-2013, 18:45   #41
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Re: Two 30amp 125v shore power service to 50amp 125v boat input

why is there a jumper on the N to G bar?

also with 2 input lines the neutral bars should be split. and a 3rd for inverter loads. seems all your N's are joined.
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