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Old 10-10-2012, 19:06   #1
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Turbine , off grid question.

Im stalled waiting for a wattage monitor ,

Instead of sitting on my thumbs , ive been going over some UK RE off the grid small home/boat systems.

I came across 1 that looked amazing , cross ref it and came up with many more like it, But NONE have DIY ,parts guides/material sheets, nothing

The System in question is a duel power RE solar / wind . That uses Ultracapacitor to greatly reduce the batteries needed to sustain power. Every source ive found made it look as , even if all your batteries die at once total dead cells , so long as there were wind or sun your system would stay running. "given you produce the power needed threw your system "

I fully under stand NO capacitor will store anywhere near the power of a D.C. RE battery . But if this system can let you use the power produced even with dead batteries , Could it not be used to make a battery free system,,, Greatly reducing the Weight and bulk of the battery bank would be wonderful. Removing it entirely would be even better yet.

So my question is this, can a RE system be set up battery free with the aid of Large Capacitors ? Given that the system had a significant Wattage out put to keep everything in your system running?

****With full understanding No wind No sun = lights out ****
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Old 11-10-2012, 03:06   #2
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Re: Turbine , off grid question.

BMOD0500-P016-B02 [BMOD0500-P016-B02] - $595.00 : Tecate Group Ultracapacitors and Supercapacitors, The power of the future. Today.

this is the Capacitor in Question...
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Old 11-10-2012, 04:46   #3
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Re: Turbine , off grid question.

Ultra capacitors do have so amazing properties and may have boating applications for providing energy to anchor winches and bow thrusters, but at the present time the cost of storage capacity is too high to replace the house bank.

The sun does not always shine and be wind does not always blow.

The capacitors you listed only have storage for about 1.5 AHrs, so would only run a fridge for 1/2 or so.
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Old 11-10-2012, 12:49   #4
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Re: Turbine , off grid question.

I was thinking more along the lines of use for island hopping, with a 10 hour back up battery on the frig. In the gulf there is never a time of 0 wind 1600W low wind start 56 inch 31 lbs wind turbines are around 900 bucks now , The cheapest RE battery ive been able to find is about 500 bucks, Min need of 4 . the Ultra capacitors shown is only 600 bucks and if my math is right id need only 2 ,
The weight reduction is massive also, 147lbs shipping weight on battery 51 lbs shipping weight on Ultra capacitors.

Ive followed this trail from a survivalist forum to start with. after reading the first i was intrigued and found 4 more similar , 3 were no reply , 1 sent me a link to how to built a Ultra capacitors bank " same as battery bank" the last told me where to buy Ultra capacitors and what to look for but he would not give advice on how to install, "But insured me should i go to his shop in Bristol he could build a system for me from scratch for roughly 11,000 euro" "Including electric car motor"

None of these guys are willing to "Show" there systems. I guess i was just hoping someone here was using some such system and might not mind sharing there build.
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Old 11-10-2012, 13:24   #5
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Re: Turbine , off grid question.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Farfanugon View Post
In the gulf there is never a time of 0 wind 1600W low wind start 56 inch 31 lbs wind turbines are around 900 bucks now ,
I would love to find that gulf!! the one here is windless quite often. sometimes even more so at night!!
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Old 11-10-2012, 17:21   #6
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Re: Turbine , off grid question.

According to the Gulf of Mexico Satellite Oceanography Study being conducted by the National Aeronautics and Space Administration which began in August 1981 , and has been a constant run to present , The lowest wind speed recorded in the gulf of mexico is 3.1MP , I fully agree 3mp winds are near nothing, and not useful for sailing, But 3 MPH winds are plenty to operate a low wind turbine or 2.

***Data Available by mail or online from ***
National Aeronautics and Space Administration
Wallops Flight Center, Wallops Island, Virginia 23337
C/O R. Forsythe, C. Parra, C. Parsons

ACCESS NUMBER: 29094

The Constant wind is whats driving in these guys so quickly http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/env...il-3743866.php
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Old 11-10-2012, 17:59   #7
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Re: Turbine , off grid question.

3mph is NOT enough to make useful power with today's wind turbines you find on a boat. Unless you want to design a turbine with a large swept area, and turning a max 50w alternator/motor...

...unless you know of a turbine I do not know of?

Chris

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Originally Posted by Farfanugon View Post
According to the Gulf of Mexico Satellite Oceanography Study being conducted by the National Aeronautics and Space Administration which began in August 1981 , and has been a constant run to present , The lowest wind speed recorded in the gulf of mexico is 3.1MP , I fully agree 3mp winds are near nothing, and not useful for sailing, But 3 MPH winds are plenty to operate a low wind turbine or 2.

***Data Available by mail or online from ***
National Aeronautics and Space Administration
Wallops Flight Center, Wallops Island, Virginia 23337
C/O R. Forsythe, C. Parra, C. Parsons

ACCESS NUMBER: 29094

The Constant wind is whats driving in these guys so quickly Gulf turbine plan sparks wildlife debate - San Antonio Express-News
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Old 11-10-2012, 18:30   #8
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Re: Turbine , off grid question.

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no just a cheap low wind 1.1 MPH start turbine roughly 4 amp at 3mph 2 units need 8 Amps isnt to bad in no/low wind .

Im still scanning the years of data, i cant find any place where there is a greater than 4 hour time span of winds in the 3-4 mph range .

I Honestly cant see a hole in the figures, But i still am no closer to knowing how to place the capacitors in the system
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Old 11-10-2012, 19:40   #9
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Re: Turbine , off grid question.

I think you are mis-reading that graph - the wind speed is in Meters/Sec, so it is saying about 4 amps at 8mph. And most of these graphs are optamistic
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Old 11-10-2012, 19:42   #10
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Re: Turbine , off grid question.

Don't know about a hole in your figures ! BUT theres no large wind operated gennys anywhere Ive been around the Gulf Of Mexico!! And theres very few places around it I havent been !! if there was enough wind to make power like ya want somebody would have put up big wind gennys long ago ! just sayin all the wind gens Ive seen or owned on boats were a very poor second to solar panals for supplying power! ya need at least 15 knots of wind to get crap out of them !!! and ck to see the average wind at or above that in the gulf !!!
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Old 11-10-2012, 23:15   #11
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Re: Turbine , off grid question.

56 inches is a very big blade diameter for a yacht.

Like others I am skeptical that you be able to manage without a reasonable sized storage bank, but if you can, I would fit a small lead or lithium battery. This will much less expensive than the ultra caps and provide a better voltage filter.
Regulating a suitable voltage with the ultra caps will be difficult I think, but I have no direct experience.

Many yachts ( including mine) are self sufficient power wise.
New and lateral thinking about old problems is always helpful, but unless you have a lot of time and money to devote to the project I think you would be better to copy the well proven formula used by most boats.
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Old 12-10-2012, 02:13   #12
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Re: Turbine , off grid question.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Farfanugon View Post
Im stalled waiting for a wattage monitor ,

Instead of sitting on my thumbs , ive been going over some UK RE off the grid small home/boat systems.

I came across 1 that looked amazing , cross ref it and came up with many more like it, But NONE have DIY ,parts guides/material sheets, nothing

The System in question is a duel power RE solar / wind . That uses Ultracapacitor to greatly reduce the batteries needed to sustain power. Every source ive found made it look as , even if all your batteries die at once total dead cells , so long as there were wind or sun your system would stay running. "given you produce the power needed threw your system "

I fully under stand NO capacitor will store anywhere near the power of a D.C. RE battery . But if this system can let you use the power produced even with dead batteries , Could it not be used to make a battery free system,,, Greatly reducing the Weight and bulk of the battery bank would be wonderful. Removing it entirely would be even better yet.

So my question is this, can a RE system be set up battery free with the aid of Large Capacitors ? Given that the system had a significant Wattage out put to keep everything in your system running?

****With full understanding No wind No sun = lights out ****
1 Ah = 3600 As
3600 As / 12V = 300 As/V = 300F

Formula:

E = 1/2 C V^2 for a capacitor
E = P * time for a battery (P = V * I)

The voltage will drop as the capacitor discharges, half the charge means half the voltage. A capacitor holds a fraction of energy in time as stored in a battery. A 40x's size will hold less then the bat.

lloyd
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