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Old 14-06-2019, 12:51   #1
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trying to source brushes for an Ideal windlass

Today my windlass had issues. When I installed it used two years ago, I knew that the brushes had limited life in them. Today the windlass gave up the ghost.

So I am in the market for a newset of brushes for my V3C Ideal windlass. I have a email into schaefer marine who now sells Ideal. However I suspect they would love to sell me a replacement motor. Alas my pockets are not so deep.

So I'm hoping that somewhere someone else has replaced the brushes and can tell me the make and model of the brushes or motor. I have a photo of them below.

I did check the solenoid, by jumpering it via a wrench and the windlass still turns veryyyy sloooowwly. I figure one or more brushes has reached it's service life.
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Old 14-06-2019, 13:14   #2
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trying to source brushes for an Ideal windlass

They donít look too bad, see if one of the springs has bottomed out against the brush holder so it canít push on the brush, which usually means the brush is worn of course, usually a worn brush arcs so bad the commutator is eaten up, your looks good.
Brushes often have a diagonal line on them on one side, this is a wear indicator of course. Pop one out and look for the line.

Back in the day you would take a brush into shop that rewound motors and they guy would pull out replacements from under the counter, there were really all that many different brushes, they are sort of standard parts.
Maybe you can find a local electric motor shop?

Ideally the commutator should be cleaned up, I had a stone to do that on my old Lincoln Welder, but of course In your case it has to be spinning, which takes us back to the motor shop.
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Old 14-06-2019, 13:24   #3
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Re: trying to source brushes for an Ideal windlass

Oh sorry, The photo was from two years ago when I mounted the old ideal windlass. I had cleaned the carbon from around everything. Taking the back off now will be interesting. Odds are I'll need to drain the gear oil and remove the motor assembly. Thats assuming I don't needto drop the whole thing first.
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Old 14-06-2019, 13:31   #4
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Re: trying to source brushes for an Ideal windlass

There is an electric motor shop in downtown SF, Rite Way. He knows it all.
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Old 14-06-2019, 14:01   #5
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Re: trying to source brushes for an Ideal windlass

Brushes don't look too bad??.......

I think they are toast! The connecting wire on the brush at 10 o'clock is on the bracket and will prevent brush pressure on the commutator. My recollection from an old Ideal windless that I had is that they should be at least twice as long as shown.
And this pic is two years old!..

Ecos has the right idea.

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Old 14-06-2019, 14:14   #6
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Re: trying to source brushes for an Ideal windlass

sc, here's a link to a great shop in Oakland. I was last there maybe five years ago.


Good luck.


Universal M-25 & M25XP Alternator Bracket Upgrade & Alignment


In case you can't access the link:


I learned about this shop from Chris Stewart on the C36 Forum (http://www.c36ia.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1191). Gen Star, 1367 Willow Street, Oakland, CA, 94607, 510-893-6161, 800-828-3131, John Stack. He's very helpful, explained the guts & gore of the inside of alternators, and bench tested the one I'd been using to check it worked.
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Old 14-06-2019, 14:26   #7
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Re: trying to source brushes for an Ideal windlass

Don't forget to clean/sand the commutator, cut down the mica, and set in the new brushes before you re-install and put load on it.
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Old 14-06-2019, 14:57   #8
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Re: trying to source brushes for an Ideal windlass

Quote:
Originally Posted by DougR View Post
Brushes don't look too bad??.......

I think they are toast! The connecting wire on the brush at 10 o'clock is on the bracket and will prevent brush pressure on the commutator. My recollection from an old Ideal windless that I had is that they should be at least twice as long as shown.
And this pic is two years old!..

Ecos has the right idea.

DougR


Seeing as how they lasted two years, Iíd still say they donít look that bad, looks like new brushes and it would be OK.

Usually when you let a motor go to the point to where it wonít run right, there has been so much arcing that the commutator is worn, has grooves in it and is ďburnt upĒ.
Which I hope wonít be what she finds, cause that often is fixed with a new motor.
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Old 14-06-2019, 15:10   #9
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Re: trying to source brushes for an Ideal windlass

Many industrial supply houses sell brushes. McMaster Carr does. mcmaster.com. No minimum order. You can almost always find it for less somewhere but they have lots of stuff.
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Old 14-06-2019, 15:56   #10
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Re: trying to source brushes for an Ideal windlass

thank you ecos and stu for the leads. I knew when I installed it, that the brushes were a tad short. Had I been a wee bit more proactive, I would have had a set of brushes on hand already. But nope.

Looks like I'm going to need to dismount the motor and take the brush plate off and get measurements on the brushes. Joy. Back to the wench winching the rode with a jib winch. Which is how I got the rode up today.

It's been one of those weeks. My DC/DC laptop power block died today and my USB block died 2 days ago. Ah well, It's a Boat.
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Old 14-06-2019, 16:25   #11
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Re: trying to source brushes for an Ideal windlass

One nice thing about brushes is that you don't need to get the exact size. Get larger is necessary and file them down to fit properly. Messy but cost efficient.
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Old 14-06-2019, 17:08   #12
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trying to source brushes for an Ideal windlass

I have had one experience where that didnít work. It turns out that in vacuum the copper oxide graphite and moisture film (that black stuff on the commutator ) canít form because there is no water.
Brushed motors fail rapidly.
Much to my surprise I learned that the film on the commutator is essential to proper operation.
But brushes in air are remarkably tolerant and filing or sanding to size is a great idea.
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Old 14-06-2019, 17:43   #13
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trying to source brushes for an Ideal windlass

Even ran into a issue with aircraft Starter /Generators. They changed the material they made the brushes from to make a brush that would last until TBO of the generator, but they were wearing out really fast on us.
Turned out it was due the the altitude we flew at. I had to make sure our orders only came with the old carbon brushes.
Eventually they had enough complaints from the starter / generators on the biz jet APUís that they changed the material again.
Crop Dusters they didnít care about, biz jet APUís they did.

But yes the film is very important, they are similar to brakes, you ďseasonĒ brakes and that transfers a film from the brake pads to the disk and the pads last much longer, brushes are similar.

More than you likely ever wanted to know about brush life, but it does a good job of explaining the film, where it comes from etc.
https://www.plantservices.com/articles/1997/001/
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Old 14-06-2019, 20:23   #14
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Re: trying to source brushes for an Ideal windlass

I knew I had seen the brush carrier before. Its a prestolite starter/western plow motor. Brush set with new carrier is available on ebay for not much $$. I also knew Ideal had to sourse their motors in the US. Happy camper, er...sailor, is I.
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Old 15-06-2019, 09:09   #15
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Re: trying to source brushes for an Ideal windlass

I believe that any DC electric motor shop(or better, a starter repair shop!) will fix this brush replacement fast and easy. My Lofran Tigress had this problem, and an electic starter shop specialized in farm equipment replaced the brushes, cleaned and put my Lofran electric motor back in perfect shape... Fast, and very cheap by Marina standards. In reality, all Windlass motors are in fact starter serial wound motors. No windlass manufacturer make their ow electric motor. They simply buy starters motors without all the gears ....
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