Trying to repair Air Breeze circuit board

[lucseawalker]

Over the last 25 years, I can remember too many control boards that had to be replaced for my 2 earlier Air X and now for my 2 Air Breeze units.
Every time, I end up buying a new board since they cannot be repaired!

More junk to discard, more out of pocket money each time ... not very good situation. So this time, I will try to repair myself my circuit boards: I have 3 units (one that failed 2 years ago, one that just failed now and 1 brand new spare that tested badly when trying to use it
I know electricity but not electronics but I am willing to learn!

Looking at the circuits, I see only a few major components:

3x rectifiers IRF2804 ( I remember these failing on the AirX and replaced by beefier rectifiers the seemed to last

1x round part ??? MN473-8.2

1x tubular part ??? BMI 510DX / 1000uF 63VDC USA 125deg

1x flat rectangle with many legs PIC 168717 (?) tough to read with painted number superimposed! (B12 on photo)

I cannot find a schematic and the manufacturer says (!) they don't have any (!!)

Can anyone give me some advice as what and how to test components ...
Or can anyone recommend someone that will actually replace faulty components ...

[skipmac]

First, do you have a good meter and how to use it? You will need that to test these components.

Originally Posted by lucseawalker

3x rectifiers IRF2804 ( I remember these failing on the AirX and replaced by beefier rectifiers the seemed to last

I would check these first. Common failure point as you note.

1x round part ??? MN473-8.2

1x tubular part ??? BMI 510DX / 1000uF 63VDC USA 125deg

Capacitor

1x flat rectangle with many legs PIC 168717 (?) tough to read with painted number superimposed! (B12 on photo)

IC, integrated circuit or a chip. If this needs replacing you will have to figure out what it is. Could be almost anything from a processor,
voltage regulator or even hold a small custom program to control the the generator.

I cannot find a schematic and the manufacturer says (!) they don't have any (!!)

Can anyone give me some advice as what and how to test components ...
Or can anyone recommend someone that will actually replace faulty components ...

Back to the first point, do you have a good meter and how to use it? Testing most components is easy enough and can be done with a VOM but some, like the IC, can't be done.

[ReneJK]

MN473-8.2
power inductor
http://www.amstechnologies.com/filea...commonmode.pdf

BMI 510DX / 1000uF 63VDC
motor start capacitor 1000uF 63VDC

B12 . most likely programmable (thus socketed) ee-prom or something with 'B12' the software version ? *guessing here*

http://ww1.microchip.com/downloads/e...Doc/30487c.pdf

[rwidman]

Those "flat rectangle with many legs" will get you every time.

As skipmac posted above, it's and integrated circuit chip. Basically, it's a bunch of components built into one chip. It could contain dozens or more transistors and other components and as he posted, could perform any number of functions. You can't test it unless you have a test circuit specifically made to test it.

You can't test the other components either without removing them from the circuit board. Many of your components are very small and would require advanced soldering equipment and skills to be removed without damaging them.

In years past, it was possible and common to repair equipment by testing components and replacing failed ones. I did this for a living. For many years, this has not been the case. Repairing typically consists of replacing a failed circuit board like you picture.

With your stated history of failure, I would be looking at the power coming to the unit. Is it stable and free of sags and surges? Is it the correct voltage, not too high or too low?

Maybe a quality power conditioner (not a $5 surge protector) would be a help.

Have you asked the manufacturer for suggestions on why your circuit boards keep failing?

[ReneJK]

Originally Posted by rwidman

Many of your components are very small and would require advanced soldering equipment and skills to be removed without damaging them.

I used to be in the electronics repair buisiness for many years as well (many many moons ago) but removing these components as not all that hard , they're not SMD or smaller , so solder wick and a desolder pump will work

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=htrcZuK_ZsY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wDvgi289dv0

[skipmac]

Maybe the best solution is to ditch the internal circuit board altogether. I have read about a number of owners of wind generators having repeated problems with the builtin regulators switching to external regulators. Pretty easy job.

Just take the output wires directly from the generator and run them below and connect to any standard alternator regulator, preferably a smart one like the Balmar.

[dfelsent]

The pic16xxx is a micro controller made by Microchip Technologies. It is a complete computer with memory and peripherals. It is the brains. Unless another component has failed and taken it out it is likely good.
Inspect the pcb closely for damage. Often failed power components, that is the ones carrying the higher power, will leave telltale marks when they fail.
Good luck

[rwidman]

Originally Posted by ReneJK

I used to be in the electronics repair buisiness for many years as well (many many moons ago) but removing these components as not all that hard , they're not SMD or smaller , so solder wick and a desolder pump will work

Yea, I did that too. For someone not in the field, I would call that "advanced".

He has a bunch of parts he can't identify and if he could identify them, he would have a hard time finding them.

Maybe the company sells replacement boards, maybe they would repair his or sell him a "refurbished" board, maybe there's a source on the Internet that sells refurbished boards. He'll have to search.

[travellerw]

I do electronic repair as a hobby...

First.. Notice the rectrifiers (the black things bolted to the aluminum rail), the metal backs are discolored. This tells me they have been given a "hot supper" and are most likely the problem component. At the very least, that is the place I would start.

First, you need a multimeter, second you need google. A quick google will give you the process to test those components (best tested after removing). I would put $20 down that at least one of those are fried.

In fact, looking at the board, there isn't much else to fail. Its possible the Capacitor has also failed, but doubtful.

[dfelsent]

Having looked at the post again on my PC rather than a phone -
I have spent decades designing circuitry like this and repairing it as well.

You could trace all the circuitry, and draw a full schematic. Then go through the electronic troubleshooting process if you have the equipment for that.

Unless you are a very good electronics technician or very lucky you will spend about $50 - $100 on parts and shipping before starting to replace the components. This is because you will need to shotgun the repair, i.e. replace lots of parts and cross your fingers.

Without experience you run a high risk of damaging the PCB while replacing the parts. I see on the web that the replacement PCB is about $240.

This kind of thing is frustrating for me as a professional. I sometimes fix things myself (B&G main board with about 50 failed due to age electrolytics and etched pcb conductors) and sometimes pay someone else (Mackey Studio Monitor powered speaker)

If you want to have a project that might help you learn go for it. If not, buy the PCB and as has been mentioned talk to the manufacturer tech support. You may be able to send yours back for analysis if not repair.

If you want to buy the parts http://www.digikey.com and http://www.mouser.com
are US based parts suppliers with wide inventory. They likely stock the microcontroller but it will be unprogrammed and of no use to you unless you can copy the program from the PIC and program the new one.

There are certainly similar suppliers world wide, these are two I use.

Have fun in any case!

PS the IRF2804 is a power MOSFET not a rectifier. It can be used a a rectifier however.

[senormechanico]

Originally Posted by skipmac

Maybe the best solution is to ditch the internal circuit board altogether. I have read about a number of owners of wind generators having repeated problems with the builtin regulators switching to external regulators. Pretty easy job.

Just take the output wires directly from the generator and run them below and connect to any standard alternator regulator, preferably a smart one like the Balmar.

Just one problem with that idea.
The wind generator windings are 3 phase output, and it's rectified on the board and sent to the 2 lead commutator brushes where the whole assembly swivels in the wind.
To send the output directly from the windings would require an extra brush assembly on the generator's output swivel.

[MAC-A-TAC]

With your electrical background I suggest you purchase or make a simple and rugged ( high amp / 600 v) three phase rectifier for up in your unit. Send the resulting DC down your brushes to an exturnal regulator. Automotive alternators are also three phase and use the same approach. Determine if the generator is WYE or Delta wound and choose or construct a suitable rectifier. Hope this helps because repairs to this board look to be a long shot with the low support from the supplier.

[senormechanico]

Good idea!

[travellerw]

Originally Posted by MAC-A-TAC

With your electrical background I suggest you purchase or make a simple and rugged ( high amp / 600 v) three phase rectifier for up in your unit. Send the resulting DC down your brushes to an exturnal regulator. Automotive alternators are also three phase and use the same approach. Determine if the generator is WYE or Delta wound and choose or construct a suitable rectifier. Hope this helps because repairs to this board look to be a long shot with the low support from the supplier.

Just to note, doing this will massively reduce the power output during medium to low wind conditions.

One of the functions of this board is to "step-up" the voltage in low-medium wind. This allows you to capture some energy that is otherwise not captured. With a simple rectifier the wind generator will only start charging your batteries when the output voltage of the rectifier is above your battery voltage.

I tried this on my particular wind generator when I blew up my own board. It reduced my weekly energy capture by over %40. In the end I just replaced my controller (which was unfortunately potted and not suitable for repair).

P.S. Tons of these controllers are killed by disconnecting the battery leads while the generator is NOT tied off. ALWAYS tie off your wind generator BEFORE doing any wiring work. Sigh I didn't follow my own advice in the above scenario!

[Jim Cate]

In years past there have been threads about replacing the onboard regulator in Air-X turbines with a simple bridge rectifier, mounted within the unit. A search should find those posts, which included instructions IIRC.

Unless you plan to leave the wind gen running unattended for longish periods, no regulation is needed in most cruising boats... simply monitoring the system voltage and shutting down the gen when needed isn't hard to do.

Jim