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Old 15-05-2019, 11:09   #1
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Question Trying to figure out this regulator...

Hi folks,
My old Farymann K34 engine (7hp, Single-Cyl diesel) uses its starter motor as the generator for my boat. At some point over the past 5 years, it has stopped charging my battery. It generally isn't a problem as I only run the engine for about 5 minutes at a time (I'm fortunate to be able to almost sail in/out of my slip) and I have a shore-power charger. But... it's time to make sure everything is ship-shape.


I have a little electronics knowledge (as I'm an IT guy), but I'm trying to figure out how this regulator works... I had expected a simpler system.


The starter motor has 2 connectors, with 4 wires connected
1. Negative (single wire)
2. Positive has 3 wires connected to the same post.



The present installation appears to be a 14v regulator with 7 connectors, with 6 connections. They appear to labelled
R : Red wire to generator (positive post)
G: yellow wire to generator (Positive post)
G: yellow wire to generator (Positive post)

+B: Positive connector for battery
W: <nothing connected>
C: white wire... I haven't traced this, but I assume it is to the ignition.
LE: Green wire... I believe this is the ignition green light.

(The case is grounded)


Markings on this case simply read:
REF 4136
W6A 26

Made in Spain


A previous wiring diagram I have for a different regulator marked "Ducati" is labelled similarly
B+: Positive connector to battery
A: Wire to generator
L: Green wire to charging light on panel
DF1: yellow wire to generator (Positive post)
DF2: yellow wire to generator (Positive post)
15: "White wire going to panel" ... again, I presume the white wire is ignition?


Ok... so firstly, I'd like to get the terms straight.
Q1. I'm not sure if the starter is acting as an Alternator or DC Generator; I thought it was DC, but the more I look into my regulator, I'm wondering if it is acting as both a rectifier and regulator and putting out DC at that point and not before.

Q2. I don't understand why I need 3 wires going from the battery to the regulator... why 3? Wouldn't one suffice? This is where my understanding breaks down about how this is different from a basic regulator. My only guess is that the two yellow wires are taking the alternating current and rectifying it into DC...


Q3. The state of the wiring is .... a bit rough. The present one has some form of wiring harness. To replace this, are there 'standard' harnesses that can be purchased and modified or is this something that I should make myself, wire by wire.

Q4. Given that the regulator/rectifier resides in the engine compartment under my cockpit sole, it is often a damp environment. I'd like to do some better water proofing of the connections and regulator. Any suggestions on how to do this (understanding that the regulator radiates heat and needs to be cooled so it can't be enclosed). Should I simply go with heat shrink to the connectors and some sort of dialectic grease?

Q5. Presently all of the connectors are simply slid/clipped on. Is there a better method for making the connection? I don't solder any connections on the boat, but I don't see how I could crimp the ends on to the tabs I see. There has got to be a more secure method...

At any rate, your thoughts and ideas are appreciated.
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Old 15-05-2019, 11:45   #2
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Re: Trying to figure out this regulator...

Recommend you contact the manufacturer for explicit assistance and / or referral to one of their sales and service dealers.

Farymann Diesel Engines GmbH - Homepage

History
Farymann was founded on 5th August 1947 by Mr. Farny and Mr. Weidmann. The company is based in Lampertheim, Germany.

Since its foundation, the company has produced single-cylinder diesel engines for industrial and construction machinery, marine applications and special applications.

The small business expanded very rapidly into a medium-sized company. In 1979, the company was taken over by the American group of Briggs & Stratton. And was subsequently sold to a private investor

The company began to develop into a modern industrial business.

Following an eventful corporate history, we are now as Farymann Diesel Engines GmbH represented by contracted associates in more as 60 different countries.
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Old 15-05-2019, 11:58   #3
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Re: Trying to figure out this regulator...

Not sure if you are in the USA but here is the contact info for Farymann North America. They do not appear to make the 7 hp model anymore.

Best wishes.


Farymann North America
1016 W Church St
Orlando, FL 32805-2216
Phone: 864-627-8143
Fax: 864-627-8144
Email: info@farymann.com

Customer Service Hours:
M-F 8:30-5:30PM
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Old 15-05-2019, 12:11   #4
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Re: Trying to figure out this regulator...

... Thanks. I've contacted Farymann in the past. They have changed hands a number of times and the documentation on their website for the engine isn't quite accurate. In short, direct contact hasn't been fruitful in the past. (In fact, they almost didn't want to talk to me because their engines are not allowed to be sold for marine use in the USA... any more).



On the other hand, there's a company in the USA, Entec West, who is owned (or at least he's a mechanic there?) by someone with more experience and time servicing these engines than the folks at Farymann do. He's been very helpful when it comes to actual engine issues. He still builds and uses these engines as generators...

In both cases they knew about the engine, but not about boat wiring. I thought this was a fairly "generic" electrical question and not really specific to my engine.

Thanks for the contact information, I'm sure that will be helpful to future readers of this thread. I appreciate your time to reply.
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Old 15-05-2019, 13:13   #5
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Re: Trying to figure out this regulator...

Starter generators I’ve seen don’t have pos/neg terminals. The two terminals are positive and field. They are grounded (neg) through the case. Where does your negative wire go from the starter? Look to see if it has possibly come disconnected from your empty “w” post? That all the pos terminals come through the regulator suggest it controls starting too. My guess is the red from the regulator to the starter is your start circuit. Easy to check. The two “g” wires would be generator out back through the regulator. Don’t know why there would be two. If you can confirm the field terminal on the starter, connect battery positive to it while running, to “flash” the field, and see if you’re charging again?
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Old 15-05-2019, 20:22   #6
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Re: Trying to figure out this regulator...

Maybe this will help? Here is the starter. Looks like 2 posts to me... perhaps I'm missing something.
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Old 15-05-2019, 21:32   #7
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Re: Trying to figure out this regulator...

That looks like the solenoid for a standard starter motor rather than the connections for a starter/generator.
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Old 15-05-2019, 21:57   #8
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Re: Trying to figure out this regulator...

Quote:
Originally Posted by JordanH View Post
Maybe this will help? Here is the starter. Looks like 2 posts to me... perhaps I'm missing something.
Definitely NOT the same vintage that the OP is asking about.
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Old 15-05-2019, 22:46   #9
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Re: Trying to figure out this regulator...

Agree - that’s a straight up starter solenoid - positive post and coil energize.

You would think if it was used as a generator it wouldn’t need one, being continuously engaged.

Where are the connections for the regulator you mentioned?
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Old 15-05-2019, 23:33   #10
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Re: Trying to figure out this regulator...

The system was called a Dynastart Used on a lot of early single and twin cylinder two strokes. Works well and is very simple. 50s to 70s I think Reg is not a problem can use almost anything When not starting just look at it as a generator !
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Old 16-05-2019, 01:43   #11
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Re: Trying to figure out this regulator...

Type of thing common on the old 36 volt DC systems a lot of farms used. Generally had a big old knife switch on the wall to switch between crank and generate.
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Old 16-05-2019, 10:43   #12
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Re: Trying to figure out this regulator...

Might this be of some use?:

http://www.isettadoc.com/files/dynastart.pdf

TP
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Old 16-05-2019, 20:14   #13
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Re: Trying to figure out this regulator...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Bob View Post
Definitely NOT the same vintage that the OP is asking about.
That is the op.
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Old 16-05-2019, 20:28   #14
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Re: Trying to figure out this regulator...

Quote:
Originally Posted by smac999 View Post
That is the op.
Whoops, my bad. I was thinking along the dynastart line however this is not that, just a common starter with a hot wire to the battery, possibly a wire from an alternator and another heavy gauge wire, possibly the feed to a positive bus bar or switch. the fourth wire I would guess is what energises the solenoid when starting.
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Old 17-05-2019, 05:54   #15
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Re: Trying to figure out this regulator...

Ok... so, yes, it's the solenoid for the starter.
My experience with car starter motors is that on the positive post, you would have the battery positive connected, and then a connection to the alternator.

But, as I mentioned before,
a. I didn't think I had an alternator; Is it part of the starter on my engine?
b. There are 3 cables connected to the positive on the solenoid.
c. The wiring diagram shows 3 lines into the regulator/rectifier which all appear to e connected to the starter.

And I'm back to square one of still not understanding how that system is supposed to work to charge the batteries.

While running the engine, we tested the voltage that comes from input side of the regulator and it increases with RPM's of the engine; So obviously, that's why we need a regulator. But since it's generating power, then certainly that means the starter is acting as the generator, no?

This engine is identical to mine, you can see a clear picture of the starter in black. He titles the video "alternator test"... but I don't see an alternator (so perhaps this is my ignorance showing). He has similar results to what I see when I meter.
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