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Old 01-03-2019, 08:46   #1
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Trying not to over think a basic charging system

I am helping out a friend who has a pretty simple wiring project involving fairly low loads. He is installing a single battery hydraulic system and replacing two other batteries (a 40 HP/alternator-equpped outboard engine start and auxiliary loads) at the same time. The (3) batteries will be new run-of-the-mill Deka 12V dual purpose Marine Masters. My suggestion is this:
(He already has a Sterllng 60 amp/3 bank/charger): https://www.sterling-power-usa.com/s...rycharger.aspx
I have encouraged him to purchase this battery integrator: https://dcpoweronboard.com/battery-integrators/ and to simply plug in the charger when he disembarks every time.
Done. (???)
The hydraulic system is hooked to a set of SeaLegs https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q...A62D&FORM=VIRE which shouldn’t be a problem for one single dedicated battery. The other two batteries benefit from a continuous charge, isolation and boost when needed (with optional wiring). Given that this is an open hulled/well ventilated system, any other scenario could be easily accomplished with but a set of jumper cables and some common sense isolation wrenching beforehand.

Are these (basic) systems any more complicated than this nowadays or does a quality charger and a fairly inexpensive integrator pretty much do it?

Thank you for any suggestions and more importantly for the blessed knowledge that I have gained over many years enjoying this forum.

John
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Old 01-03-2019, 13:43   #2
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Re: Trying not to over think a basic charging system

That "Battery Integrator" is a VSR.

AKA ACR or combiner.

Not needed at all between two banks already connected by a DCDC charger.
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Old 01-03-2019, 17:03   #3
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Re: Trying not to over think a basic charging system

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Originally Posted by john61ct View Post
That "Battery Integrator" is a VSR.

AKA ACR or combiner.

Not needed at all between two banks already connected by a DCDC charger.
Sorry to confuse. No chargers previously installed. I'm also assuming that the Sterling 3 bank charger will still have one bank left over by virtue of using the 'VSR' to maintain both the motor (which has its own charge system) and all the other low draw boat loads plus the auxiliary battery (single use) on one leg. The hydraulic SeaLeg motors would be charged separately from the 3rd battery.

I was hoping that this combiner would keep the batteries separated/prevent drawing down (from each other)...offer 'jump' starting should one get drawn down/go bad...and offer me a visual of when both batteries were being used during that time.

My 'backup to the backup' would consist simply of disconnecting(?) some wiring and jumping one battery to another for whatever is needed (motor starting, hydraulic leg deployment, limp home using a trolling motor, etc.).

Per the topic heading...should I be spending more than I am to KISS...or is this a reasonably well thought out way to go?

Thanks again.
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Old 01-03-2019, 17:09   #4
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Re: Trying not to over think a basic charging system

....perhaps I'm all wet to think that this is an AC charger in the first place or capable of same as i never checked the specs. and probably couldn't understand them anyways. I saw '60 amps' and thought that it could be powered by a generator as well.
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Old 01-03-2019, 17:40   #5
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Re: Trying not to over think a basic charging system

OK sorry, see now your Sterling charger is ProCharge Ultra, AC to DC, charging off shore power only.

Yes a VSR / ACR's function is to connect the House bank to the engine / Starter batt circuit whenever a charge source is active, based in voltage getting raised.

I have never come across that "Integrator" maker ever being mentioned, Blue Sea is the leading trusted maker of ACRs.
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Old 01-03-2019, 20:09   #6
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Re: Trying not to over think a basic charging system

why had no one invented a keel with battery space?
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Old 02-03-2019, 08:32   #7
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Re: Trying not to over think a basic charging system

Fundamental boat design aspect vs one that only a tiny fraction of the buying market cares, or even even thinks about.
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Old 02-03-2019, 09:06   #8
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Re: Trying not to over think a basic charging system

It would seem that if one could come across a less expensive charger (although the Sterling checks a lot of boxes) ...this would be the way to go for $129 (Newmar Integrator) and (3) $120 deep cycle/starter combination batteries to build a basic system covering a whole host of applications.

I have read countless threads involving this (for me) complicated system or that yet am still struggling to understand why this one won't work just as well in many cases for less money and (seemingly) few drawbacks. One simply adds another integrator when 3 batteries become 4 or when 5 become 6 (maxing out a basic 3 bank/60A charger) and that's that.
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Old 02-03-2019, 09:08   #9
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Re: Trying not to over think a basic charging system

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....perhaps I'm all wet to think that this is an AC charger in the first place or capable of same as i never checked the specs. and probably couldn't understand them anyways. I saw '60 amps' and thought that it could be powered by a generator as well.
Yes can be powered by an AC gen, like Honda 2000 etc
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Old 02-03-2019, 09:11   #10
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Re: Trying not to over think a basic charging system

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OK sorry, see now your Sterling charger is ProCharge Ultra, AC to DC, charging off shore power only.

Yes a VSR / ACR's function is to connect the House bank to the engine / Starter batt circuit whenever a charge source is active, based in voltage getting raised.

I have never come across that "Integrator" maker ever being mentioned, Blue Sea is the leading trusted maker of ACRs.
Yes I agree with your opinion re BlueSea ACRs, but to paint a balanced view they are not the only ones. Some people arent so convinced about them.
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Old 02-03-2019, 09:19   #11
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Re: Trying not to over think a basic charging system

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Fundamental boat design aspect vs one that only a tiny fraction of the buying market cares, or even even thinks about.
I might have under estimated "fundamental boat design" aspect(s) versus the "fraction of the buying market" struggling with what they have, what they have been saddled with or what they (ashamedly) may happen to afford.

My apologies.
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Old 02-03-2019, 09:24   #12
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Re: Trying not to over think a basic charging system

It is not a simple charging system to begin with.
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Old 02-03-2019, 09:24   #13
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Re: Trying not to over think a basic charging system

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It would seem
...this would be the way to go for $129 (Newmar Integrator) and (3) $120 deep cycle/starter combination batteries to build a basic system covering a whole host of applications
The best generic name for those "integrator" devices is VSR, or perhaps more generally "combiner", as the original inventor called them, which could include the classic value Echo Charger.

We also have "ACR" as the well-proven leading vendor Blue Sea calls theirs.

The Newmar version may very well be great. IMO that remains to be seen, after a few dozen users have reported back over a period of many years.

There are dozens of better-known alternatives no more expensive if your ampacity need is low, but so far nothing comes close to Blue Sea for bulletproof reliability and longevity.

Some boats with simple setups can even make do with a $50 IGN solenoid.

____
For the Deka batteries, if in the U.S., the best battery value by far is their Duracell brand FLA deep cycle golf cart batteries, 2x 6V around $200 per 200+AH @12V from BatteriesPlus or Sam's Club. Deka-labeled but same batts also sold at Lowes.
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Old 02-03-2019, 09:27   #14
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Re: Trying not to over think a basic charging system

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My apologies.
No need. I'm not saying it wouldn't be a fantastic idea, was just answering the "why" question, it'd be risky to try with a mass market design given market realities.

But for those commissioning a once-off custom design, entirely do-able.
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Old 02-03-2019, 09:35   #15
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Re: Trying not to over think a basic charging system

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No need. I'm not saying it wouldn't be a fantastic idea, was just answering the "why" question, it'd be risky to try with a mass market design given market realities.

But for those commissioning a once-off custom design, entirely do-able.
I misinterpreted the sentiment and was a bit sarcastic. Thanks for affording me the grace and for your opinion.
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