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Old 04-03-2019, 07:07   #31
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Re: Trying not to over think a basic charging system

The Newmar may well be fine, someone needs to test them and report back to us here.

The BSS main advantage is bulletproof longevity, high ampacity low self-consumption more than functionality.

There are also cheaper BSS ACRs.

And with the Deka, specific GC models that are better value choices were referenced above.
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Old 04-03-2019, 08:58   #32
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Re: Trying not to over think a basic charging system

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The Newmar may well be fine, someone needs to test them and report back to us here.

The BSS main advantage is bulletproof longevity, high ampacity low self-consumption more than functionality.

There are also cheaper BSS ACRs.

And with the Deka, specific GC models that are better value choices were referenced above.
Not sure what the comparative BlueSea model is in terms of functionality. As far as the style of construction as related to parasitic drain, I hope to find this out when they get back to me regarding how the integrator needs to be wired for emergency combining when one battery is lower than the other and vice versa. I should have the IOM soon and answers on what to purchase additionally to make this feature functional. Unfortunately, they tout the feature yet leave it at that.
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Old 08-03-2019, 02:25   #33
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Re: Trying not to over think a basic charging system

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The Blue Sea ML- type use near nothing at rest.

But hey someone needs to test the Newmars out and report back! 8-)
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Originally Posted by Q Xopa View Post
In fact nothing as they are a Bi- stable relay, as apposed to a NC NO type that will have holding current one direction.
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Originally Posted by john61ct View Post
Yes 13mA is nothing from a practical POV
The IOM manual is now listed on their site and the integrator supposedly draws 5 mA at rest. https://www.newmarpower.com/wp-conte...ators_4-08.pdf
If there is a simpler method of putting together a charging system i'd like to see it for four batteries (i added another) capable of backing up the other in a pinch (jumper cables). The hydraulics, as i suspected, needed a US Battery US2200 (Deka?) 840CCA/1050MCA 'boost' at FLA start. We further went with (2) 6 volt Deka DC15 golf cart cells for trolling and two (std.) Deka DC27 dual purpose deep cycles for the motor/accessories paired with the Newmar B1-100 Integrator.
The integrator will allow accessories at rest to be powered without draining the motor cell and vice versa. It will also automatically charge both when the motor runs. All (4) cells can then be charged by the (3) bank charger 24/7/365 when at shore. I'm hoping that the SeaLegs don't actually require that many CCAs yet we'll see.
We've gravitated towards this system as it seems to embody the KISS principle. If we could find a (4) cell voltage monitoring display which simply offered nothing but at a glance that would be great. If there is a more accurate/simple method of determining the maximum drawdown desired in any one cell at any given time (visual alarm?) this would be even better. Suggestions/criticisms welcome; thanks for the advice to date.
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Old 08-03-2019, 10:50   #34
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Re: Trying not to over think a basic charging system

...so does one have to pony up a significant amount in order to not discharge a common 12 volt cell beyond spec. or simple reason? Anything reasonably accurate out there with preferably a light or audible sound?

Why anybody would want to constantly check/read voltages is beyond me...
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Old 08-03-2019, 15:03   #35
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Re: Trying not to over think a basic charging system

Voltage readings are a very approximate measure of SoC.

A proper SoC gauge is much better, but only gives Voltage for Starter, SoC+Voltage for House.

Not cheap.

You really are better off putting all non-Starter batts into one House bank,

unless you really have no choice,

splitting them up reduces total capacity a lot and shortens lifespan.
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Old 08-03-2019, 15:47   #36
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Re: Trying not to over think a basic charging system

"why had no one invented a keel with battery space?"
That's how they build submarines. And, sometimes loose submarines because saltwater getting into a wet acid battery liberates chlorine gas and that's a nasty way to die. With new sealed batteries, perhaps no longer an issue, but batteries and salt water still never mix well, and bilges are intended to collect salt water.
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Old 08-03-2019, 16:10   #37
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Re: Trying not to over think a basic charging system

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Voltage readings are a very approximate measure of SoC.
A proper SoC gauge is much better, but only gives Voltage for Starter, SoC+Voltage for House.
Not cheap.
Thanks for the tutorial.

Quote:
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really are better off putting all non-Starter batts into one House bank,
unless you really have no choice,
splitting them up reduces total capacity a lot and shortens lifespan.
I was under the assumption (see above) that combining (1) 12V 840 CCA/!050 MCA starter calcium maintenance free cell with (2) 6 volt deep charge golf cart cells was inadvisable If I can actually connect these two seemingly dissimilar cells together then this simple system is even better than I had imagined: One 24/7/365 charger bank lead hooked to the starter battery/accessory battery/(integrator)...another lead running to the hydraulics battery/trolling battery...done.
My main fear is running down the high CCA battery and not being able to use the hydraulics due to the (2) deep cycle 6 volt batteries not having any CCAs to speak of (?).
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Old 08-03-2019, 19:19   #38
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Re: Trying not to over think a basic charging system

No, best off choosing one deep cycling chemistry / type and building as big a bank as possible.

With large enough capacity CCA then becomes irrelevant.

If you need to keep the bank relatively small, then a true dual-use chemistry like Odyssey TPPL will give best of both worlds.

So say 5 PC-2150 to get 500Ah would put out at least as much current quickly as 5 pairs of 200+Ah GCs.

But the FLA will be **much** better value, cheaper, more robust stand up to sloppy care and last longer.

And you have double the capacity for all your other needs.

LFP beats all lead, but complex and very pricey.
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Old 08-03-2019, 19:23   #39
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Re: Trying not to over think a basic charging system

You really need to quantify that hydraulic load's energy usage.

As much as a big windlass or winch? Bow thrusters?

How much time per burst at what average amp rate?

Say 3 minutes use pulls 2Ah. Compared to 10Ah, makes a huge difference.

How many Ah max per day?
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Old 09-03-2019, 01:39   #40
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Re: Trying not to over think a basic charging system

Welllll...i just replied with the answer that you're after and 'wrote' evidently too long/timed out/lost the entire post while signing back in.

Short version due to time constraints:
No data on motors. Only verbal suggestion from factory available. Picture of hydraulics here: http://www.sea-legs.com/Sea-Legs%20I...win%20Tube.pdf

System likes:
Simplicity with marriage.
Integrator allows the split/subsequent charge from two sources while allowing expensive or inexpensive batteries to be added for the house loads if needed. I chose inexpensive at this time until future loads dictate otherwise.
Plug it in/forget it marriage/management of different voltage types/types of batteries using a 24/7/365 (3) bank charger.

Dislike and off-topic:
I looked hard at other chemistries nowhere near as cost-effective in terms of life expectancy or overall expected use (which is often a crap shoot). If I am the only one who is beyond disgusted that i am still using the same battery that i was in my first car after spending billions on non-defense and non-secret technologies then so be it. Hot stock tip for our children and grandchildren: Torches and Pitchforks. You'll certainly be looking for them when y'all wake up and realize exactly what we spent your future on for absolutely no reason whatsoever in so many ways.
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Old 09-03-2019, 02:18   #41
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Re: Trying not to over think a basic charging system

...while keeping in mind that we're not talking 100% accuracy here....what's wrong with three of these as idiot lights (bells) to KISS and protect the batteries? https://12vtechnology.com/products/1...e-boat-monitor
I'd muffle the alarm but what's not to like if you simply want to know that you're getting close or already there?
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Old 09-03-2019, 03:59   #42
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Re: Trying not to over think a basic charging system

Another thing to consider is longevity. While their products are tough BSS also has a warranty that is phenomenal. You only ever need to buy something once.

https://www.bluesea.com/product_guarantee
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Old 09-03-2019, 05:33   #43
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Re: Trying not to over think a basic charging system

^^^^^...if they produced anything functionally as simple as charging two batteries and separating them with an emergency boost option (simple switch) I would have chosen them hands down for perceived quality/warranty. If the Newmar Integrator ever fails for $129 this forum will be the first to know.
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Old 09-03-2019, 05:59   #44
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Re: Trying not to over think a basic charging system

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No, best off choosing one deep cycling chemistry / type and building as big a bank as possible.

With large enough capacity CCA then becomes irrelevant.

If you need to keep the bank relatively small, then a true dual-use chemistry like Odyssey TPPL will give best of both worlds.

So say 5 PC-2150 to get 500Ah would put out at least as much current quickly as 5 pairs of 200+Ah GCs.

But the FLA will be **much** better value, cheaper, more robust stand up to sloppy care and last longer.

And you have double the capacity for all your other needs.

LFP beats all lead, but complex and very pricey.
Informative post. I wonder what we're talking about CCA-wise with two Deka 6 volt GC-15s hooked together (Deka's most popular run-of-the-mill golf cart battery) or four. They don't publish the numbers and I'd (ideally) like to back up my hydraulics with these someday given the high MCA/low deep cycle capacity imitations of the US 2200 specified for the job.
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Old 09-03-2019, 17:58   #45
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Re: Trying not to over think a basic charging system

Please call them VSRs or combiners so people realize just bog-standard functionality, treat "integrator" as a branding thing.

And yes you're set on them, so no point discussing that further, do keep us posted as they perform over the years.

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Informative post. I wonder what we're talking about CCA-wise with two Deka 6 volt GC-15s hooked together (Deka's most popular run-of-the-mill golf cart battery) or four. They don't publish the numbers and I'd (ideally) like to back up my hydraulics with these someday given the high MCA/low deep cycle capacity imitations of the US 2200 specified for the job.
Again, forget CCA, completely irrelevant once you get into 200+A deep cycle batts of any type.

C-rate of discharge is relevant though, and as I stated, that Odyssey AGM (among others) will put out whatever you need so fast you need to stop within 20min. But at **much** higher cost, both up front and $ / Ah / year.

So wait until you can measure the draw before buying the batts.

______
Probably already posted

The best battery value by far is Duracell (actually Deka/East Penn) FLA deep cycle golf cart batteries, 2x6V, around $200 per 200+AH @12V pair from BatteriesPlus or Sam's Club. Deka labeled same batts also sold at Lowes.
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