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Old 02-03-2019, 09:40   #16
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Re: Trying not to over think a basic charging system

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Originally Posted by john61ct View Post
There are dozens of better-known alternatives no more expensive if your ampacity need is low, but so far nothing comes close to Blue Sea for bulletproof reliability and longevity....
For the Deka batteries, if in the U.S., the best battery value by far is their Duracell brand FLA deep cycle golf cart batteries, 2x 6V around $200 per 200+AH @12V from BatteriesPlus or Sam's Club. Deka-labeled but same batts also sold at Lowes.
I have the Deka 12 volts reserved yet had forgotten about the value per AH of going the 6V route and appreciate the reminder. I might also be sending the Newmar back if the Blue Sea version is the standard.
Thanks again.
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Old 02-03-2019, 09:52   #17
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Re: Trying not to over think a basic charging system

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It is not a simple charging system to begin with.
The only thing I don't view as simple about it is the application of common loads 'beyond' what one 12 volt deep cycle battery can generally handle at any given time. I'm not sure if the above criteria is the starting point for designing basic 12 volt relatively low draw systems yet this integrator/bank charger route seems to be about as simple as i have witnessed.

That said and to your point...i wouldn't be looking for simple if everything was simple.
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Old 02-03-2019, 10:39   #18
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Re: Trying not to over think a basic charging system

Only thing to watch is idle current. All solinoids can be normally open or normally closed. If you fit a normally closed type it reqires current to keep it open so will be drawing power whenever the system is off charge. It does not say which type this is.
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Old 02-03-2019, 12:46   #19
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Re: Trying not to over think a basic charging system

The Blue Sea ML- type use near nothing at rest.

But hey someone needs to test the Newmars out and report back! 8-)
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Old 02-03-2019, 15:29   #20
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Re: Trying not to over think a basic charging system

I will call Newmar on Monday to answer roland's observation by asking them to refute the ML-type's claim(?) of a similar/low(er) parasitic drain. On the other hand, I plan on keeping all of these batteries hooked up to the Sterling UltraCharger 24/7/365 with the understanding(?) that this charger does a pretty good job of maintaining all battery types (somewhat programmable) without overcharging.
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Old 02-03-2019, 15:38   #21
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Re: Trying not to over think a basic charging system

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The Blue Sea ML- type use near nothing at rest.

But hey someone needs to test the Newmars out and report back! 8-)
...was also noticing that even 'bare bones' they don't give these away either (over twice, using MSRP, what i paid for the Newmar). I'll test whatever you''d like given an idea of how to do it.
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Old 02-03-2019, 18:00   #22
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Re: Trying not to over think a basic charging system

forklift batteries are a lot longer than square and if lead is used as balast why not dual purpose that lead, balast/battery AND during regular maintenance you are inspecting the hull bolts and can see if there is any water leaking into the bildge AND the water temp will help to regulate the tempature of course not so good in cold water.
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Old 02-03-2019, 21:37   #23
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Re: Trying not to over think a basic charging system

Seems like the reason one wouldn't put batteries in the keel is keeping them and the connecting wires dry. Seems impossible considering that's below the bilge.
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Old 02-03-2019, 22:14   #24
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Re: Trying not to over think a basic charging system

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Originally Posted by john61ct View Post
The Blue Sea ML- type use near nothing at rest.

But hey someone needs to test the Newmars out and report back! 8-)
In fact nothing as they are a Bi- stable relay, as apposed to a NC NO type that will have holding current one direction.
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Old 03-03-2019, 02:58   #25
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Re: Trying not to over think a basic charging system

Yes 13mA is nothing from a practical POV
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Old 03-03-2019, 05:02   #26
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Re: Trying not to over think a basic charging system

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Seems like the reason one wouldn't put batteries in the keel is keeping them and the connecting wires dry. Seems impossible considering that's below the bilge.
While understanding that the above was answering another question, these batteries will be exposed to the (freshwater) weather. I suggested that these (big $) boxes be purchased to ease wiring access and for future dual 6V use if extra loads are someday required. https://no.co/hm426 . They'll take some plugs/silicone here and there yet I'm thinking that they will be sufficient. Keeping the 60A Sterling charger w/fan close to the batteries is another conundrum. I'm suggesting a sturdy box of some sort with proper top/drip lip. Then that he wrap/silicone the minimum amount of vent holes needed with Outerwear material or premade Frogskinz with holes drilled n the bottom for the (minimum) seeping water. If there are other charging unit mounting options out there I haven't found them.

I hate suggesting anything that isn't 'marine approved' yet I sincerely enjoy criticism of my future thinking/workarounds as well. He has one fairly large dry area to locate the hydraulics in (a console) yet I'm not sure that cramming everything in to there is a good idea without more information on proper venting or if irregularly shaped/tall spaces are even workable for proper air flow (I'm thinking not).

Thanks again for any thoughts in advance.
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Old 03-03-2019, 05:12   #27
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Re: Trying not to over think a basic charging system

...on second thought...it appears that the extra wiring holes in these boxes are actually vent holes well protected from the weather: https://no.co/hm426
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Old 03-03-2019, 05:23   #28
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Re: Trying not to over think a basic charging system

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Originally Posted by Q Xopa View Post
In fact nothing as they are a Bi- stable relay, as apposed to a NC NO type that will have holding current one direction.
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Originally Posted by john61ct View Post
Yes 13mA is nothing from a practical POV
I appreciate you both fleshing this out for comparison. We'll see what Newmar says tomorrow.
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Old 04-03-2019, 05:38   #29
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Re: Trying not to over think a basic charging system

I contacted Newmar and then studied the two products side by side as suggested. Are these the two products referenced(?) https://www.bluesea.com/products/683...Charging_Relay ...and if so, how would they compare to a product which (only) claims to separate batteries during drawdown, combine them during charging and (optionally) combine them for emergencies? https://dcpoweronboard.com/battery-integrators/
I understand the parasitic drain concept which we hope to solve by simply keeping everything on the smart charger 24/7/365 when the system is not in use...but what additionally is the BlueSea actually affording us of value (at a significant added cost) in a 3-bank low amperage (use) 'basic charging system'?
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Old 04-03-2019, 06:50   #30
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Re: Trying not to over think a basic charging system

Items/cost to date:
(3) Deka DC27 Marine Master batteries sourced locally= $360
(1) Newmar Battery integrator (separates batteries during drawdown, combines them during charging and optionally combines them for emergencies= $129
(3) NOCO dual 6 volt industrial battery boxes = $207
(1) Sterling Pro Ultra 60A charger (friend already had; overkill for application; ditto concerning above boxes)= $Cost of smart charger will be related to system charging amperage required. Bonus if charger can be used with a suitcase generator.
(1) Misc. gasketed box for charger with Outerwear or Frogskinz material for venting purposes= TBD
Wiring/commectors= TBD

If there is a simpler system out there for less money or one featuring more capabilities while K(ing)ISS I'm open to suggestions (thanks).
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