Trojan short T105 terminals

[ramblinrod]

Originally Posted by daletournier

I've just replaced three 12v batteries (70kg each!!!) with 6v Trojans.

Hi Dale, glad to know you are getting some new batteries.

I apologise in advance if the following post seems harsh, but this is some serious stuff you are doing and I assure you my motive is noble.

What's with the stupid short terminals?

They are to deter stupid folks from connecting too many lugs to their battery terminals.

These batteries are designed to be connected in series and parallel therefore two cable lugs need to go on many of the terminals.

Technically, they are not designed for connection in series or parallel.

Those are possible installation configurations.

They have been designed with terminal connections that may support such an installation if the proper size and number of lugs are used.

As you can see by the photo the nuts supplied don't fully do up.

This should be corrected before any load is applied.

Nuts working loose on electrical connections worry me on boats, I'd prefer to put nylocs on them or at least spring washers but no way that can happen (see photo).

Loose connections should definitely be avoided.

Do not use Nyloc nuts; they can insulate the nut from the terminal, and contribute to a bad connection.

I've used heavy cable and the lugs are a decent size but not bigger enough that they should cause an issue.

Actually, the thickness of the lugs ARE causing you an issue.

These are industrial deep cycle batteries surely they can handle decent size lugs and cable?

Actually, the manufacturer classifies them as marine, golf, utility vehicle, and NEV batteries.

I concur they should handle appropriate sized lugs.

Obviously, they are not designed to support the size and number of lugs your have attempted to apply.

So, how do others deal with this?

Use appropriate lugs, do not over-stack terminal posts, if necessary, connect the battery terminal to a power post or buss bar for additional connection requirements.

I've used loctite on them.

Don't.

Loctite is an insulator. See note above about Nylocs. Also, doing so could damage the battery internally when the nuts are removed.

Second question. I've wired them up with negative and positive main cabling at diagonal ends of bank as is generally recommended in a series /parallel setup but need somewhere to put the blue sea terminal fuse bar for battery charger cable. Due to above terminal shortness it can't go on the main positive terminal therefore I'm putting it on another post terminal (see photo) , any problem with this?

It is not possible to determine if the batteries are interconnected and wired correctly to your DC distribution system based on the photo. Your description sounds suspiciously incorrect.

I'm not in a position to mount a fuse remotely and run a new cable to the battery swith rather than straight to battery.

I'm only trying to be helpful (and not trying to be a jerk), but there are enough issues and concerns with your current set-up, your questions, and proposed solutions, that you seem insufficiently knowledgeable in marine electrical system modification and installation to perform the work you are attempting.

I recommend you stop, set down the tools, and consult a marine electrical professional, before proceeding, as the battery manufacturer recommends.

I just don't want to see anybody hurt themselves (or others) over poorly executed marine electrical system modification, and based on your post, you are heading in that direction.

Again, not trying to be a jerk. I've just seen too many boats burned up and people hurt by attempting some of the things you seem to be doing right now.

[fred4936]

Thank you for the info on those nuts! I have Trojan T890s for my electric auxiliary motor and I can never seem to keep on top of keeping the nuts tight. I also wanted a different post configuration, which they make, but for some reason the dealer could not get anything else. These connections have been the only issue I have had with electric propulsion system, so I am anxious to find a good fix!

[ramblinrod]

Originally Posted by daletournier

I'm not going to the trouble of doing this, as at this stage I'm hoping they'll be OK, but just come across this option.
How to repair your golf cart battery terminals

Holy $#!+

That MacGyver solution is just begging for major problems.

Please do not assume things you see others do on the internet are wise.

Just because it hasn't caught fire or blown up yet, does not make it safe.

There is always tomorrow.

(For that matter, it could have already blown up and the perpetrator hospitalized or worse, and not able to post the follow-up, Man, did I ever do something stupid video.)

[daletournier]

Hi RR, thanks for your reply. No offence taken at all.

The nuts are quite large, I'm not concerned about how much thread is used, there's enough, my concern is there's not enough space for a spring washer etc to insure the nuts don't come loose. No way of mechanically locking the nuts on.

As mentioned previously I'm not loading the terminals up, there is only one or two lugs on each, one is fine, two is still a struggle.

It's wired correctly regarding being in series and parallel. I checked this a number of times and done it before successfully on my previous boat.

I'm not sure I agree with you regarding nylocs, other qualified sources seem to belief it's ok and I've used them before with no issues.

I've measured the lugs thickness, they are 3.5mm, the cables on the boat that come from factory are 2.5mm, therefore we are talking only 2mm difference when two lugs are combined. If my lugs were 2mm less I still would struggle to get a spring washer under there.

Regarding drilling hole and new post, don't worry I'm not that brave and I'm also surprised your the only one that's commented.

I have to work with what I've got currently. They were the batteries I could get and the battery supplier who is a electrical contractor made me up the cables and suggested loctite if I was concerned.

These batteries are specifically imported here to be used in golf carts, that's their sole function here. As far as I know golf carts use these batteries in series and parallel therefore they have more than one lug on the terminals.

Regardless of whether the terminals should be bigger or not for this application is irrelevant, they aren't and I have to work with it. Currently loctite is the best nut security until I can source nylocs. I've charged the banks up checking each connection for excess heat during the process and all is fine.

I trust my own judgement here more than I would trust a qualified local to do the install.

[daletournier]

Anyone else have an opinion regarding using nyloc nuts?

[john61ct]

The real connection is the horizontal one between the base and the lug surface.

So a ring terminal too big for the bolt or stud on the battery is a very common problem.

If no vertical room for a lock washer, Nyloc nut - if there actually are enough threads for it to even engage - is certainly better than connections going loose.

There are loctite grades strong enough to potentially cause problems when removing the nut, Nyloc better than that too.

[john61ct]

Ideally thinner but still robust lugs could be found at some point. Or maybe just compress the flat end a bit in a hydraulic press? Yep a bit McGyver

[Tricolor]

These nuts in stainless might be a solution DIN 936 nut hex, low type

[keepondancin]

How about using star washers, the ones that are like a series of thin fan blade. Is there enough thread for them? Wonder why the guy tapping the battery terminal didn't demonstrate on a useable battery, not one that looks like it exploded.

[DotDun]

Originally Posted by daletournier

...
These batteries are specifically imported here to be used in golf carts, that's their sole function here. As far as I know golf carts use these batteries in series and parallel therefore they have more than one lug on the terminals.

FWIW, golf carts are series only, either 36V, 48V, or 60V. Hence, only one lug per terminal.

[Frankly]

The major electrical conductive path is between the lug(s) and the surface of the terminal base. SS is not a great conductor so the threaded stud and nut are much less important. That the SS parts remain tight and keep the pressure on the connection is very important in avoiding trouble.

I reckon I am the only guy on the planet that still use the original lead post clamps.

[ramblinrod]

For those reading this thread about Nyloc nuts and Loctite on battery studs...

Don't do it.

Neither is required.

The risk of a high impedance connection, heat generation, and fire is increased. The risk of battery post damage, heat generation and fire, or sparks and explosion is increased.

The notion that it is required to maintain secure battery cable connections is false.

To ensure cables are secure with standard hex nuts:

1. Torque the nuts to battery manufacturers specs (120 – 180 in-lbs in this case)

2. Secure the batteries and cables to prevent physical movement or vibration from working on the cable and possibly loosening the connection.

These steps alone are sufficient to ensure the cables are properly and securely fastened.

If you need to know why one shouldn't MacGyver this stuff, just Google Boat Fire Images.

At least 90% of the time, a horrific electrical fire is due to incorrect owner wiring modification.

I have personally witnessed way too many of these first hand, in process and after the fact, because someone did not follow the 2 simple steps above.

[Smokeys Kitchen]

Dale - I don't know if these would work/be appropriate/are available, but just a thought. 2 of them together would lock onto the lug if you have room

[daletournier]

Originally Posted by john61ct

The real connection is the horizontal one between the base and the lug surface.

So a ring terminal too big for the bolt or stud on the battery is a very common problem.

If no vertical room for a lock washer, Nyloc nut - if there actually are enough threads for it to even engage - is certainly better than connections going loose.

There are loctite grades strong enough to potentially cause problems when removing the nut, Nyloc better than that too.

Exactly my thoughts. For the time being loctite is my best option (blue Med strength).
It's not like I'm spreading it on the lugs!
When I can get half nylocs that's then my best option.

[daletournier]

Originally Posted by Smokeys Kitchen

Dale - I don't know if these would work/be appropriate/are available, but just a thought. 2 of them together would lock onto the lug if you have room

Yes I think k it would, this also crossed my mind, but once again I believe hard to source at the moment.