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Old 02-11-2018, 16:36   #1
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Trojan lithium drop in replacement

I'm not sure how long these have been out and I couldn't find anything in the search feature, but I just came across Trojans version of a drop in Lithium Ion Battery called their Trillium line.

https://www.trojanbattery.com/pdf/Trillium_Brochure.pdf

Although I would love for it to be true, I am sure Mainesail or someone else is going to bring reality back into the conversation.

It would be interesting to know if anyone knows about Trojan's new product or has some specifics on it or experience.
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Old 02-11-2018, 16:56   #2
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Re: Trojan lithium drop in replacement

Nice to see a major battery company getting into the lithium market. I did notice that the brochure does not specify the chemistry of the battery. LIFePo4 and associated chemistries are good, other Lithium chemistries not so much for boating use.
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Old 02-11-2018, 17:05   #3
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Re: Trojan lithium drop in replacement

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Nice to see a major battery company getting into the lithium market. I did notice that the brochure does not specify the chemistry of the battery. LIFePo4 and associated chemistries are good, other Lithium chemistries not so much for boating use.
Here is the spec sheet.

https://www.trojanbattery.com/pdf/da...m_12.8-110.pdf

It says it is a Lithium Iron Phosphate. The part that scares me though is under charging specs it gives a recommended float voltage. From the little bit I know this is a big no no. Unless the internal BMS does something with the float voltage, I am very suspicious of it.


I hope a company like Trojan is doing things right, but there promotional video advertises that it is a "direct" swap without making changes to your charging system. Maybe they've discovered the secret sauce to Lithium, or maybe they haven't.
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Old 02-11-2018, 17:25   #4
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Re: Trojan lithium drop in replacement

Here is my choice for under the cabin seats

(3) TR 12.8-110 Li-Ion 12.8 V 110 Ah (1,408 Wh) 12.1 x 6.6 x 8.7height
Total 330ah

Electronic features
  • Visual SOC (state of charge) gauge on the top of the battery
  • Microprocessor* ensures the battery is completely self-protected
  • If a problem is detected, will turn itself off.
  • When a problem goes away, it turns back on, automatically self-healing.
  • Integrated Controller Area Network (CAN)** communications share battery data—state of charge, state of health, and fault status—with other devices.
  • Trillium also has the built-in ability to track lifetime amp hours throughput and historical fault data is stored.
All fine, but I will have to
  • Create and Set voltage alerts inside of the Trojan limits.
  • Disconnect the Alternator Ignition wire before Trojan HVD to prevent damage to diodes, or install a Sterling Alternator Protector.
  • Possibly establish my own voltage charge limit which shuts off the Alternator and SolarPV, if Trojan's settings are a little to high or low for me.
LiFePo4 is fine, perfect really. I look forward to finding out more. Thank you for posting. I think I get how to wire this! The Victron 712 will be very useful!
  • Discharge cut off 9.5V ± 5% 2.375vpc (low IMO) Some have 3.00vpc
  • Charge cut off 15.2V ± 5% for 5 sec 3.8vpc (high IMO) Shouldn't be above 3.55vpc
You can establish your own limits during use and with alerts and smart manual operations. I would be nice if you could set your own BMS limits within Trojans.
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Old 02-11-2018, 18:27   #5
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Re: Trojan lithium drop in replacement

No mention of warranty anywhere?
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Old 02-11-2018, 18:39   #6
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Re: Trojan lithium drop in replacement

Can't compete with BattleBorn all the others claiming "drop-in" ability unless you do to.

Will work just fine for many, but they'll get "only" around the rated lifetime, rather than the much longer possible from "avoiding the voltage shoulders". Of course we really won't know for many years.

All in all, I'm sure will help the rising LFP tide, and that's a good thing.
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Old 02-11-2018, 19:56   #7
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Re: Trojan lithium drop in replacement

John, why not use a Victron BMV-712 and set your own alarm limits and disconnects?

Maybe they'll have some user settings?

It will probably be more $ than other alternatives.
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Old 03-11-2018, 10:08   #8
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Re: Trojan lithium drop in replacement

Any ideas of price range for these Trillium batteries yet? I've been searching the Internet, and have not found anything online. They look very interesting, nice to have more options in the drop-in LiFePO4 battery market, always good to have more competition to drive innovation, and hopefully push prices down.

-David
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Old 03-11-2018, 12:51   #9
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Re: Trojan lithium drop in replacement

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John, why not use a Victron BMV-712 and set your own alarm limits and disconnects?
Of course anyone can enforce their own better settings, just regulating manually, or using whatever gear they want.

I was addressing the original flawed "drop-in" concept, flawed but perhaps not fatally so for others' needs.

Biggest problem for me is the too-limited current flow because of the flimsy internal BMS which can't be bypassed or even accessed.

Unknown maker / quality on the internal cells is also a big flag, for me.

Just because Trojan makes great FLA doesn't necessarily carry over to other lines IMO.

> Maybe they'll have some user settings?

What does that "they" refer to?
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Old 04-11-2018, 03:18   #10
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Re: Trojan lithium drop in replacement

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Will work just fine for many, but they'll get "only" around the rated lifetime, rather than the much longer possible from "avoiding the voltage shoulders".
Well that's perfect then no? With most items people wish they last their rated lifetime. 5000 cycles should be enough for even the most stringent penny-pincher
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Old 04-11-2018, 06:21   #11
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Re: Trojan lithium drop in replacement

I heard rumblings of this in the fall at a solar show but the Trojan booth was being pretty hush, hush. All I know as of this point is that they are slated to begin shipping Q1. Based on their AGM promised ship date, and multiple push backs, I don't know that I'll hold my breath on the Trilliums. We may hear about pricing as early as December and it is rumored to be "competitive".

I think Trojan actually did some good things with these but we won't know until we see production models. CAN-bus external communication capability is very promising and even if not perfect out of the gate means software updates could be forthcoming etc..Charging at up to 1C is very nice and a continuous discharge rating of 300A and as much as 400A for as long as 30 seconds are also much better than the current crop of "drop-ins"... These current handling capabilities would seem to indicate that true contactors, as opposed to mosfet switches, are likely being used. They are also giving guidance on cold weather charging, with greatly reduced amperage's below freezing..

I do believe that having a well respected major battery manufacturer such as Trojan entering the LFP arena, as opposed to a bunch of sticker application companies slapping stickers on plastic boxes, lends a level of credibility to the chemistry.

Based on first glances it appears Trojan listened and did their homework and just may be the first "drop-in" LFP that is actually more optimally constructed to be used as a house bank for a marine application.
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Old 04-11-2018, 06:46   #12
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Re: Trojan lithium drop in replacement

Quote:
What does that "they" refer to?
Trojan I guess. What is the BMS?

Thanks MaineSail that's encouraging.
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Old 04-11-2018, 06:47   #13
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Re: Trojan lithium drop in replacement

so if you are asking how much .. you probably can't afford it?
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Old 04-11-2018, 07:31   #14
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Re: Trojan lithium drop in replacement

Yes those higher current rates do make them much more viable for more use cases.

Communications between the internal BMS and the outside in fact takes them right out of my definition of "drop-in".

We'll need a different term for the likes of these and also Victron's, maybe "sealed system pack" or something.

Which makes for four types, with "packaged system" for those based on big prismatic cells, BMS on the outside offered by OceanPlanet / Lithionics, Victron, MasterVolt, Redarc.

The "portable powerpaks" (so-called 'solar generators') are like "drop-ins" but add inverter / converted outlets, built in solar controller / converter-charger, and not necessarily even based on LFP.
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Old 04-11-2018, 07:36   #15
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Re: Trojan lithium drop in replacement

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Trojan I guess. What is the BMS?
Will be Trojan's design I'm sure not available separately.

And I'd be amazed if setpoints were user-adjustable, BMS does not often control the charging sources, just last-layer battery protection for when user-level gear fails.

But the CAN-bus comms may allow for some flexibility, each pack under the control of a rPi or Arduino "master control unit" for example rather than adding traditional mechanical relay/contactor controls outside.
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