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Old 09-11-2018, 09:05   #46
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Re: Trojan lithium drop in replacement

There were some LFP batteries at the UK Southampton boat show this summer. I don't remember the manufacturer now, but they made a big point about being made totally in USA.
They were similar size to 105's and had their own BMS included.

They were certainly competitively priced with other similar offerings (e.g. mastervolt) but still way outside my own interest level.
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Old 09-11-2018, 12:44   #47
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Re: Trojan lithium drop in replacement

I don't think the inner actual LFP cells / pouches are made anywhere but China, unless maybe Europe?

wrt USA I think the best you'd get (if this were important to you) is " designed and assembled" there. Maybe the enclosure, some wiring etc.
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Old 09-11-2018, 13:33   #48
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Re: Trojan lithium drop in replacement

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Originally Posted by john61ct View Post
I don't think the inner actual LFP cells / pouches are made anywhere but China, unless maybe Europe?
That is what I expected, but apparently this company has opened their own facility in USA to make the cells. I would anticipate that it is relatively close to a source of lithium.

Speaking to the company representative, he speculated that another factory could be opened in UK as apparently the old Cornish mines also contained lithium, but this was not used and so commercially a waste product in the late 1800s when these mines started to close down.
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Old 09-11-2018, 17:55   #49
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Re: Trojan lithium drop in replacement

Actual lithium is used in such tiny quantities barely an issue with LFP.

The millions maybe billions of investment dollars, cheap electricity and environmental issues are the big ones.

Sorry, but I think you were speaking to someone in sales / marketing, color me skeptical.
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Old 10-11-2018, 15:20   #50
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Re: Trojan lithium drop in replacement

By chance this past week I had been exploring the market for this particular battery type (Trillium) and was advised that, in Canada where I am, these batteries are expected to be offered for sale in April 2019. The Group 27 asking price is expected to be CAD$2400, so presumably the Group 24 will be slightly less expensive. All other things being equal, the US$ I would think to be roughly $1850 for the Grp 27.

This info was provided by a company called Megacharge
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Old 30-11-2018, 20:39   #51
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Re: Trojan lithium drop in replacement

The website now has a good page
https://www.trojanbattery.com/trillium/
TRILLIUM INTELLIGENT FEATURES

CELL SELECTION
  • Proven safest chemistry
  • Longest life in its class
  • Highest capacity in its class
  • US-based cell development
  • Quality 100% X-ray check
  • Trojan-specific cell
  • UN38.3; UL 1642; IEC 62133
BATTERY DESIGN
  • Easy replacement for PbA
  • Robust case, IP67 rating
  • Automotive-grade safety protection
  • Current sensor, fuse, temp. sensor
  • Validated charger compatibility
  • UL 2271/TV***
ELECTRONICS
  • Visual SOC gauge
  • Coated for dust/moisture protection
  • Microprocessor-based controls
  • CAN-communications
    (TR 12.8-92 Li-Ion only)
  • Lifetime Amp-hours tracking
  • Historical fault data storage
  • US-based development
https://www.trojanbattery.com/produc...-8-110-li-ion/


https://www.trojanbattery.com/pdf/da...um_12.8-92.pdf


https://www.trojanbattery.com/pdf/Tr...UsersGuide.pdf
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Old 01-12-2018, 02:01   #52
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Re: Trojan lithium drop in replacement

I see there is still a recommended float voltage
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Old 01-12-2018, 06:19   #53
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Re: Trojan lithium drop in replacement

This is nice, don't have to remove from boat.
"Storage Temperature Range -40F to 140F (-40C to 60C)"
Just make sure it is charged enough to not drop below minimum allowed.

MODEL TR 12.8-92 Li-ion
VOLTAGE 12.8V
NOMINAL CAPACITY 92Ah (1,180Wh)
CASE PC/PBT Resin Blend, IP67 Enclosure, UL94 V-0
BATTERY Deep-Cycle Lithium Iron Phosphate
CYCLE LIFE >5,000 Cycles @ 80% DOD*
INTELLIGENCE Integrated Microprocessor, State of Charge Gauge, Integrated Contactor, Current Sensor, Fuse
Group 24, 10.2 (259)d x 6.6 (168)w x 8.5 (216)h, 27 lb
5 hr (18a) 92ah
10 hr (9a) 92ah
20 hr (4.6a) 92.5ah Energy 1.18kwh
Recommended Charging Voltage 14.4v - 14.8v
Recommended Float Voltage 13.8v
Max charging current at >32f 92A
Communication CAN-Open User Side Deutsch DTM06-3S Pin 1: GND/B- Pin 2: CAN H Pin 3: CAN L
BMS Protections -Cell-Level Voltage, Temperature, Over Voltage, Under Voltage, Over-current
BMS Functions -Cell Balancing, State of Charge
Discharge Voltage Cutoff 9.5V 5%
Charge Voltage Cutoff 15.2V 5% for 5 Seconds
Data Logging Total Lifetime Amp Hours, Recent Faults
State of charge indicator

I don't understand the high charging voltages or the cutoff voltage!


Too bad about the costs.
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Old 01-12-2018, 07:22   #54
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Re: Trojan lithium drop in replacement

I am surprised that anyone thinks it odd that vendors specify Floating and over-charging voltages.

Big resellers like Trojan and ancillary equipment vendors will continue to follow the specs handed down from the OEMs, not recommendations borne out of research by users.
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Old 01-12-2018, 07:38   #55
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Re: Trojan lithium drop in replacement

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Too bad about the costs.

Have you seen pricing?
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Old 01-12-2018, 08:40   #56
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Re: Trojan lithium drop in replacement

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Originally Posted by john61ct View Post
I am surprised that anyone thinks it odd that vendors specify Floating and over-charging voltages.

Big resellers like Trojan and ancillary equipment vendors will continue to follow the specs handed down from the OEMs, not recommendations borne out of research by users.
Why are you calling Trojan a reseller on this battery? Is it available under another name?
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Old 01-12-2018, 09:03   #57
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Re: Trojan lithium drop in replacement

What causes you to believe they actually manufacture them?

Packaging in a case, maybe the control electronics.

Certainly not the cells themselves, do you know how many billions that costs? Similar to solar cell manufacturing and computer chip wafer fabrication.

99.99% likely the OEM for those is Chinese.
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Old 01-12-2018, 10:53   #58
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Re: Trojan lithium drop in replacement

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Originally Posted by tanglewood View Post
Have you seen pricing?
I don't know if this is accurate but here's one price.

Trillium Battery - Trojan Intelligent Lithium 12.8V 110Ah - We Go Solar Canada
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Old 01-12-2018, 13:13   #59
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Re: Trojan lithium drop in replacement

People have had issues with lithium batteries "going dead in storage" because of an integral BMS that consumed just a little power--but enough to kill them on the shelf after six months.

So without knowing the engineering that has been done, one can only speculate that a float voltage is there to negate the drain of the BMS, and if the BMS is doing a proper job, that float voltage is never been seen by the battery *unless* it is really needed.

In and of itself, having a spec for float voltage doesn't say anything about that being a right or wrong thing. It could even mean simply "Yeah, use this number, the BMS will ignore it for weeks on end. It is harmless if your charger insists on providing a float portion of the charge cycle."
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Old 01-12-2018, 13:44   #60
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Re: Trojan lithium drop in replacement

I think I would rather charge it up to 30% SOC several times during the winter, maybe late fall and early spring.

These are a pretty nice package, but you will still need:
1.Charging Bus with disconnect relay and Volt sensor for alternator, solarPV and shore charger.
2.Discharge Bus with disconnect relay and Volt sensor for House panel and other loads.
I think a Victron BM-712 would do this and allow you to set your own limits within Trojan's BMS.

But wouldn't it be easier and much less expensive to use Winston LiFePo with a BMS?
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