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Old 14-08-2014, 10:30   #91
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Re: To Solder or Not.. That is the Question

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Originally Posted by crazyoldboatguy View Post
Yeah, but what is the European view?

Thanks for the replies. It seems odd that folks are saying that non-tinned wire makes soldering more difficult when most folks do NOT recommend soldering. But the oxidation issue is clearer. As a fresh water sailor, I don't often see the problems that salt water sailors do but all the work on my vessel is done assuming a salt water environment. I never know when the transporter beam will take me to my south pacific paradise.
Europeans boats are not in the main wired with tinned conductors. Funnily the live in nasty salt water too. Mine isn't tinned and after 28 years connections are as good as the day they are made.

An argument for tinned wire might be beneficial in areas of high dampness and direct exposure to salt spray, but then I'd ask why is that occurring


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Old 14-08-2014, 10:49   #92
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Re: To Solder or Not.. That is the Question

How about 20 years from now? Do we have photos of 20 year old connections with tinned wire and plain copper?
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Old 14-08-2014, 11:42   #93
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Re: To Solder or Not.. That is the Question

After living in an extremely corrosive climate for ten years now, and maintaining boats, engines, cars, tools, and a house, I've come to the conclusion that any time you put any two metals of different composition in contact in a marine environment, one of them changes.
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Old 14-08-2014, 12:30   #94
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Re: To Solder or Not.. That is the Question

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Originally Posted by Matt sachs View Post
How about 20 years from now? Do we have photos of 20 year old connections with tinned wire and plain copper?

mine are 26 years old ( well not mine, the manufactures ) and still seem fine, no obvious corrosion. - Untinned wire nor would I worry too much about a bit of surface copper verdigris, once the cable was bright when originally made up.


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Old 14-08-2014, 12:34   #95
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Re: To Solder or Not.. That is the Question

=== I've come to the conclusion that any time you put any two metals of different composition in contact in a marine environment, one of them changes ===

So, untinned copper wire and untinned copper terminals are the way to go. Thanks!
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Old 14-08-2014, 13:02   #96
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Re: To Solder or Not.. That is the Question

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Originally Posted by crazyoldboatguy View Post
=== I've come to the conclusion that any time you put any two metals of different composition in contact in a marine environment, one of them changes ===

So, untinned copper wire and untinned copper terminals are the way to go. Thanks!
I'm sure you are aware, but for those who aren't.. That is called Galvanic Corrosion and is a predictable phenomenon.

Here is a chart to help understand how it works and which are the 2 worst together.

http://www.npfasteners.com/pdfs/galv...sion-chart.pdf
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Old 14-08-2014, 17:15   #97
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Re: To Solder or Not.. That is the Question

Crimp any way you like.

I have been working on boats for a long time and believe in Tinned wire. Nothing to do with the crimp but more with moisture wicking up wire ends and causing corrosion. I have had wires pass a continuity test but have corrosion 3 -4 feet up the wire and unable to pass any amount of current (Outboard remote oil tank, bilge pumps etc.)

A few mils of tin between the wire strands and a properly crimped connector will not make any difference one way or the other on a normal 12 or 24v system.
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Old 14-08-2014, 18:47   #98
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Re: To Solder or Not.. That is the Question

How is it possible that heat shrink wont seal out moisture?
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Old 14-08-2014, 19:05   #99
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Re: To Solder or Not.. That is the Question

Regular heat shrink tubing can't displace all the air and those pockets absorb moisture. Dielectric grease is sometimes used to help displace the air but it doesn't always work. The best thing is to crimp correctly so not even a molecule of water can get in. It's the only way to do it right.

Not to mention that over time heat shrink expands slightly which will let more moisture in.
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Old 14-08-2014, 19:29   #100
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Re: To Solder or Not.. That is the Question

All silly aside, tinned wire isn't that much more costly and seems to provide protection against the oxidation that can creep a long ways up the insulated portion of the wire, so why not use it. Tinned terminals properly crimped may lose a bit of current but it doesn't appear to be a serious problem. I certainly will make sure whoever is wiring the boat is using a proper crimping tool (that is, if I am not running the wire). Seems a no brainer to me.
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Old 14-08-2014, 20:05   #101
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Re: To Solder or Not.. That is the Question

The main reason you don't use or see soldered connections, especially on high current applications is because of heat. Imagine a wire running at or over its capacity and heating up. The fist casualty will be the solder beginning to melt! which will cause it to lose some contact between the two terminals, which raises resistance and adds more heat and causes more solder to melt and so on until the circuit either goes dead or starts burning.

A proper made crimp welds the wire to the terminal. At my work, crimpers are routinely calibrated and treated as test equipment. When a crimper is recalibrated and fails the as-found specs, all the work that done with it between calibration cycles must be reviewed or redone.
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Old 14-08-2014, 20:13   #102
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Re: To Solder or Not.. That is the Question

If you don't know how to solder - don't. Solder connections can also have the unfortunate action of "drying out" after a number of years and loose some if not all of their connectivity.
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Old 14-08-2014, 20:34   #103
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Re: To Solder or Not.. That is the Question

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Originally Posted by crazyoldboatguy View Post
and a bonus question... Do you use tinned wire?
(I really want to know - so I read every post)
I personally have a Europeans view on tinned wire !!!
(OK, I'm of European ancestry but haven't a clue as to what that means)
tin is less conductive than copper - no need for tin
(now we're getting somewhere but it doesn't refer to the wire)
Every technical question on CF is answered in the first 5 posts.
(not this time, Ex-Calif )

Since I am about to embark on the completion of my insanity project I will shortly need to buy a whole lot of wire for my boat. Do I need tinned wire, as the OP originally asked? From one post it looks like it actually interferes with conductivity. It's supposed to facilitate soldering but since I won't be soldering, will it interfere with crimping/conductivity? Is tinned wire an ABYC requirement?
Quote:
Originally Posted by crazyoldboatguy View Post
All silly aside, tinned wire isn't that much more costly and seems to provide protection against the oxidation that can creep a long ways up the insulated portion of the wire, so why not use it. Tinned terminals properly crimped may lose a bit of current but it doesn't appear to be a serious problem. I certainly will make sure whoever is wiring the boat is using a proper crimping tool (that is, if I am not running the wire). Seems a no brainer to me.
I just bought 1,000 feet of AWG14 tinned marine grade wire. I will probably buy some more before I am done.

I will be crimping the connections.

Ya'll can do what ya want - I've already paid my boat bucks...

See ya'll in 20 years and if my electrical joints are failing ya'll can spank me and I will buy a soldering iron...
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Old 14-08-2014, 20:43   #104
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Re: To Solder or Not.. That is the Question

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See ya'll in 20 years and if my electrical joints are failing ya'll can spank me and I will buy a soldering iron...
LOL...if I'm around in 20 yrs. I'll remind you of this offer...if I can remember who you are that is...
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Old 14-08-2014, 21:09   #105
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Re: To Solder or Not.. That is the Question

I only spank the ones I love, Ex-Calif. I'll take that as a proposal.
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