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Old 17-10-2008, 09:12   #1
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Those battery-restoring chargers

Do those battery de-sulphinator (sp?) type chargers, that are supposed to revive pretty muvh any dead battery, has anyone had practical experience with them? I ran into a local guy who deals with big deep cycle batteries in the hospital field, and he says they DO work, and work well.

Any thoughts? Anywhere to get one at a good price if they do work?
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Old 17-10-2008, 09:38   #2
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They won't revive ANY dead battery! They will revive a battery that is dead as a result of mild to moderate sulphation. I've used the batteryminder type and they definitely do work for mildly sulphated batteries.
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Old 17-10-2008, 10:16   #3
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See, now I ahve been told first hand that they "re-vived" two batteries that were dead for two years in a garage. Hmmmmm.
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Old 20-10-2008, 11:54   #4
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Yeah, that's possible. It depends on why they were "dead," how they were treated in the interim, and just what is meant by saying they were "revived." These things are not miracle devices, though, and they cannot perform magic on dead batteries. They most definitely can revive some batteries, to some extent, in some circumstances. I think they are worthwhile. That's why I have one. Just don't expect miracles.
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Old 20-10-2008, 13:01   #5
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As posted before, they will not "wake the dead" but will wake the sleeping. We motorcycle guys do it quite a bit...but we are on land and can call for help...or get a jump...but they do work and will extend the life of a battery to a point. Once they have expired, that's it.
If it was my boat I would bite the bullet and buy a new battery. Then buy a Battery Tender (TM) or the like and keep the batteries charged.
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Old 20-10-2008, 15:01   #6
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Try this for de-sufination:

What is Nanopulser?
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Old 20-10-2008, 15:43   #7
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Having done a (tedious but not scientifically rigorous) 1.5 year study of several such pulsing devices, I would suggest that you search the archives on this Board, SSCA, and SailNet before drawing any firm conclusions.

Despite our best efforts, we were unable to prove any real beneficial effect. The only scientific testing I know of -- by a major national laboratory -- came to a similar conclusion.

IF they work at all, it would be good to have a scientifically-based longitudinal study document the conditions under which they can be useful.

Meanwhile, I'll remain sceptical and the dozen or so test devices I have will remain on the shelf.

Bill
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Old 21-10-2008, 09:10   #8
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Motorcycle Consumer News did a test on the various chargers available and concluded they do, in fact work. Some better than others. Some don't.
They tested for initializaition of the battery, float charge, quick charge and de-suphation. Then they printed their top choice based on the one that worked best and then the best value.

BTW, MCN accepts no advertising, they rely on subscription dollars. If it is a POS, they say so, to the dismay of many a manufacturer.

Yuasa had problems a few years ago with sudden OEM battery failures. MCN launched an investigation and it prompted Yuasa to find the problem which was defective welds between cells. Yuasa replaced their welding machine as a result.
The problem went away for a while and resurfaced. Yuasa said the welds were fine, and they were. MCN investigated further and found Yuasa was taking back the defective units and reselling them to aftermarket suppliers.
MCN called them out and the problem was resolved.
Yuasa was not pleased with MCN at all.

Based on their test results I'd trust their findings.
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Old 21-10-2008, 14:12   #9
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Motorcycle Consumer News did a test on the various chargers available and concluded they do, in fact work...
Are the Motorcycle Consumer News - MCNews.com - The most complete, most detailed and most accurate information about every aspect of motorcycling. “Charger” reviews available on-line?

Did they review restorers (re-conditioners), the subject of this thread, or just conventional chargers?
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Old 21-10-2008, 14:44   #10
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I would be very interested in finding out, this thread reflects what I hear out here, mixed opinions and facts. I hope there IS something to these.
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Old 27-10-2008, 23:37   #11
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The boat I bought at an estate sale had a pair of West Marine gel cell batteries. Both were esentially dead (by which I mean voltage 10v or less). A Vector multi stage charger (VEC1097a) that has settings for gel batteries failed to charge them, giving an error code. I then ran the revive feature. After a 24 hour dose one battery was up and accepting full charge. The other took two 24 hr cycles before it would accept full charging. After two years the second battery is now down for good. But the first is still doing fine.
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Old 28-10-2008, 09:53   #12
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Having done a (tedious but not scientifically rigorous) 1.5 year study of several such pulsing devices, I would suggest that you search the archives on this Board, SSCA, and SailNet before drawing any firm conclusions...
Bill
Bill,

Just for grins, which desulfator did you test? I, too, am skeptical about the Nanopulser, which is powered by the batteries themselves, but I still wonder about other pulsing-type de-sulfating battery chargers. I've mentioned elsewhere here that I've had good luck with a Vector automotive-type battery charger with a desulfating capability, but I certainly didn't test it under lab conditions using a double-blind testing methodology!
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Old 28-10-2008, 12:17   #13
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Jon,

We had several pulsers available for testing from four different manufacturers (one manufacturer provided six or seven different models, including pulser only and charger/pulser types, 12V and 24V).

The first interesting thing we found when we put them on a spectrum analyzer was that the pulses emitted by these devices were all different!
Very different. In timing, pulse width, amplitude, frequency, etc., etc.

Which, naturally, led to the question of how they could all work if they were all very different, esp. in frequency, one from the other.

A national testing lab of great repute did some testing on one of the models we tested, and found similarly that there was no discernable positive result. Sorry, I'm under an NDA (non-disclosure agreement) and can't tell you any more.

For a time, it appeared that new models were hitting the market every few weeks or so. Quite the fashion :-) And, the pulsers have attained a cult following, with dedicated affectionados confecting their own. Circuits are available on the Internet, and these have been substantially modified by "cult" members.

I remember one fellow who built a "super pulser" which apparently wiped out his TV every time he turned it on :-)

Again, our tests weren't "scientific" in the real meaning of the term. We did take pains to lay out a testing protocol, to employ excellent equipment, and to carry out the protocol as best we could over a lengthy period. At least in our tests we found no reason to believe that the models tested -- on the batteries available for testing (gels and flooded golf cart size batteries, well used) -- had any significant impact.

After many months of cycles involving pulsing/charging/discharging to 10.5v, then pulsing/charging/discharging again, the pulsers and pulser/chargers appeared to have little or no impact. However, a single equalization cycle (15.5-16.5V overnite) did have a measurable positive impact on the four flooded T-105s. After that, the pulsers seemed to provide no further improvement.

We can surmise that the equalization impact came mainly from agitating the electrolyte and knocking some of the PbSO4 crystals off the plates, but then the corollary conclusion would be that the pulsers -- which had at that point been in use for six months or so -- failed to deal with the sulfation problem.

As you study this problem more closely, and as you read and explore the many factors involved in battery performance and testing, you realize that any definitive statement about the pulsers would have to follow from a large-scale, independent (probably government-funded), longitudinal study by a capable laboratory. So far, this hasn't happened to my knowledge. But, I'd be first to say that it should, if only to answer the deceptively simple question we were trying to answer, "do these things really work, or are they snake oil?".

Bill
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Old 28-10-2008, 12:25   #14
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Battery reviver

I'm no chemist but I seem to remember when I was at uni. that a dose of EDTA in each cell was used to revive defunct batteries.
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Old 28-10-2008, 17:23   #15
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I'm no chemist but I seem to remember when I was at uni. that a dose of EDTA in each cell was used to revive defunct batteries.
EDTA ??????????
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