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Old 16-12-2012, 15:00   #1
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there is no starter on older perkins 4 108 with koehler generator end

Dear readers

I am just restoring an older ferro cement boat and have an Perkins 4 108 with an koehler generator end. I guess the genset is between 12 and 15 kWh.
The boat was not in use for 10 Years.
I got the main engine running and now I am looking into to get the generator started.
After cleaning I am realizing the Perkins has no starter. I got the info that some engines gets started via the generator end. So I connected the generator part with 12 volt. It turns the engine but very slow. Next step was to try 24 volt. Same result but a little bit better.
Problem is that the negative connection get very hot and starts smoking fast.

Dont want to spend to much money into the unit before I don t know it is worth the effort.
The 12 or 15 kWh are anyway a little bit to much for my need.

Does somebody knows about this setup and has some knowledge.
there are more pics about the restoration under

Flickr: awabflickr's Photostream

thanks
peter
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Old 17-12-2012, 03:21   #2
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Re: there is no starter on older perkins 4 108 with koehler generator end

Quote:
Originally Posted by awab View Post
Dear readers

I am just restoring an older ferro cement boat and have an Perkins 4 108 with an koehler generator end. I guess the genset is between 12 and 15 kWh.
The boat was not in use for 10 Years.
I got the main engine running and now I am looking into to get the generator started.
After cleaning I am realizing the Perkins has no starter. I got the info that some engines gets started via the generator end. So I connected the generator part with 12 volt. It turns the engine but very slow. Next step was to try 24 volt. Same result but a little bit better.
Problem is that the negative connection get very hot and starts smoking fast.

Dont want to spend to much money into the unit before I don t know it is worth the effort.
The 12 or 15 kWh are anyway a little bit to much for my need.

Does somebody knows about this setup and has some knowledge.
there are more pics about the restoration under

Flickr: awabflickr's Photostream

thanks
peter
Peter,

What came first? The house in Colognol, or the concrete boat?

I say save the house and piazza, if you have any energy and money left, then go for the concrete boat.

No matter how it looks now the house is the better investment.

If you want a boat we should talk.

Fair is fair.

Lloyd
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Old 17-12-2012, 05:00   #3
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Re: there is no starter on older perkins 4 108 with koehler generator end

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Peter,

What came first? The house in Colognol, or the concrete boat?

I say save the house and piazza, if you have any energy and money left, then go for the concrete boat.

No matter how it looks now the house is the better investment.

If you want a boat we should talk.

Fair is fair.

Lloyd
Says the guy with the wooden boat! [now where's that ROTFLMAO smiley?]

On the other hand -- Lloyd knows exactly what he's talking about!

Seriously, that's good advice. I can't imagine having all those projects going on at once, even if I had just inherited a million or two and could hire a lot of Albanian labor. That is a SERIOUS lot of work.
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Old 18-12-2012, 04:33   #4
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Re: there is no starter on older perkins 4 108 with koehler generator end

hello friends

Yes, it looks like a lot of work but I like to have this kind of projects. Keeps me away from the street. What else can you do with your time. Going to church or playing golf?

But serious.
Does somebody knows about this generator.
Could not even find a manual on the net.

thanks
peter
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Old 18-12-2012, 05:41   #5
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The last one of those I was involved with started slowly and had 2 12volt 8D batteries in parallel to son it.
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Old 18-12-2012, 06:32   #6
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Hello,

I had an old Kolher 6.5 KW 4 cylinder gas banger that started the same way. There was a reversing circuit in it that used the rearend to turn the motor over. It took some juice to turn it over. I had two 12v group 31's in parallel and extended cranking would quickly drain the batteries. Luckily it normally fired in 5-10 seconds.

It was a great generator -13,000 hrs on it when I pulled it for a diesel refit. Sold it to a guy a few years back who is still running it without issues.

Later,
NJ
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Old 18-12-2012, 07:06   #7
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Re: there is no starter on older perkins 4 108 with koehler generator end

This is likely the wrong place to ask that question. Try posing the question over here: Antique Engines and Old Iron Tractors on SmokStak

Find the appropriate forum there and ask your question. Lots of smart guys there.
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Old 18-12-2012, 08:14   #8
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Re: there is no starter on older perkins 4 108 with koehler generator end

A generator is basically a starter motor producing current instead of consuming it.
Haven't seen one of these in a while but seem to recall that the start-up mode involved a spring loaded ignition switch which held in a high- amperage latching relay, that released when output current balanced the coil power.
If you can read very poor schematics, this principle is somewhat similar in theory to how the older Onan MDK (IIRC) generator maintain their "run" condition.
Search out "DYNASTART" schematics and I think you will find the operating principles you need.
Of course there are other components involved, but the science is very basic.
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Old 18-12-2012, 21:22   #9
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Have you done anything to the engine in preparation to start? If it hasn't run in 10 years & wasn't stored properly it's going to need substantial work before trying to start.
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Old 20-12-2012, 05:01   #10
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Re: there is no starter on older perkins 4 108 with koehler generator end

thanks so far
the tip with the smokestak page I think was very good. Posted my problem there and wait now for some answers.
I am clear what to do before the actual engine can start. I think the perkins is not the problem. It turns freely. If there would be a normal starter I would get the engine running for sure.
I am only confronted the first time with starting via the genset.
I have been reading about the dynastart.
Got this story so far but it still not helps me how to start this generator.
Does somebody has more experience or by any chance a manual.

thanks
peter
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Old 20-12-2012, 05:31   #11
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Re: there is no starter on older perkins 4 108 with koehler generator end

Have you tried to contact Kohler?
Kohler Power: Contact Us: Marine


United States/Canada - 800-544-2444
Asia Pacific at +65 6264-6422
Europe - Middle East - Africa +33 (0) 1 49 17 83 00


Or searching their technical archives?
Kohler Power: Technical Documents: Technical Library: Marine Generators
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Old 20-12-2012, 08:10   #12
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Re: there is no starter on older perkins 4 108 with koehler generator end

thanks gordmay

I looked up this pages. my problem is that the unit is pre internet and I don t have any serial number. don t know even 100% the kw. Could be 12 or 15 kw.
The gen is been in the boat and the boat I bought from the yard. Never spoke to the original owner.

thanks anyway
peter
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Old 20-12-2012, 08:40   #13
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Lincoln electric built some 250 amp welders with onan 2 cyl. engines that used the gen end as a starter. They used 2 large 6v batteries to energize it. 1st. if you haven't make sure your cranking batteries are charged up, check all cable (what ga. are they) are clean & tight connections. The Lincoln welders started cranking slow & then would increase, check your voltage while cranking at both ends of the cables, there may be internal corrosion causing a drop in voltage. This is from my memory of using one over 30 years ago Good luck
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Old 20-12-2012, 14:40   #14
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Re: there is no starter on older perkins 4 108 with koehler generator end

hello
thanks I get the story better now. It is possible that the batteries been not fully charged.
What concerned me that the negative connection got so hot.

I stopped trying because I was afraid to damage something. Never was confronted with a system like this.

Still the question does somebody has an idea about the model number of the unit.

thanks
peter
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Old 20-12-2012, 20:57   #15
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Re: there is no starter on older perkins 4 108 with koehler generator end

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Originally Posted by awab View Post
hello
thanks I get the story better now. It is possible that the batteries been not fully charged.
What concerned me that the negative connection got so hot.

I stopped trying because I was afraid to damage something. Never was confronted with a system like this.

Still the question does somebody has an idea about the model number of the unit.

thanks
peter
Peter, you just answered your own question.

Absolutely none of the connections nor the conductors should get hot. Do a voltage drop test across the neg and pos cables, at each connection.

This will give you the answer you seek.

Lloyd
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