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16-12-2012, 14:00
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#1
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Italy
Boat: s&s, motorsailor, 55 feet
Posts: 94
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there is no starter on older perkins 4 108 with koehler generator end
Dear readers
I am just restoring an older ferro cement boat and have an Perkins 4 108 with an koehler generator end. I guess the genset is between 12 and 15 kWh.
The boat was not in use for 10 Years.
I got the main engine running and now I am looking into to get the generator started.
After cleaning I am realizing the Perkins has no starter. I got the info that some engines gets started via the generator end. So I connected the generator part with 12 volt. It turns the engine but very slow. Next step was to try 24 volt. Same result but a little bit better.
Problem is that the negative connection get very hot and starts smoking fast.
Dont want to spend to much money into the unit before I don t know it is worth the effort.
The 12 or 15 kWh are anyway a little bit to much for my need.
Does somebody knows about this setup and has some knowledge.
there are more pics about the restoration under
Flickr: awabflickr's Photostream
thanks
peter
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17-12-2012, 02:21
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#2
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Marine Service Provider
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 1,109
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Re: there is no starter on older perkins 4 108 with koehler generator end
Quote:
Originally Posted by awab
Dear readers
I am just restoring an older ferro cement boat and have an Perkins 4 108 with an koehler generator end. I guess the genset is between 12 and 15 kWh.
The boat was not in use for 10 Years.
I got the main engine running and now I am looking into to get the generator started.
After cleaning I am realizing the Perkins has no starter. I got the info that some engines gets started via the generator end. So I connected the generator part with 12 volt. It turns the engine but very slow. Next step was to try 24 volt. Same result but a little bit better.
Problem is that the negative connection get very hot and starts smoking fast.
Dont want to spend to much money into the unit before I don t know it is worth the effort.
The 12 or 15 kWh are anyway a little bit to much for my need.
Does somebody knows about this setup and has some knowledge.
there are more pics about the restoration under
Flickr: awabflickr's Photostream
thanks
peter
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Peter,
What came first? The house in Colognol, or the concrete boat?
I say save the house and piazza, if you have any energy and money left, then go for the concrete boat.
No matter how it looks now the house is the better investment.
If you want a boat we should talk.
Fair is fair.
Lloyd
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17-12-2012, 04:00
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#3
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Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Denmark (Winter), Helsinki (Summer); Cruising the Baltic Sea this year!
Boat: Cutter-Rigged Moody 54
Posts: 33,750
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Re: there is no starter on older perkins 4 108 with koehler generator end
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyingCloud1937
Peter,
What came first? The house in Colognol, or the concrete boat?
I say save the house and piazza, if you have any energy and money left, then go for the concrete boat.
No matter how it looks now the house is the better investment.
If you want a boat we should talk.
Fair is fair.
Lloyd
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Says the guy with the wooden boat! [now where's that ROTFLMAO smiley?]
On the other hand -- Lloyd knows exactly what he's talking about!
Seriously, that's good advice. I can't imagine having all those projects going on at once, even if I had just inherited a million or two and could hire a lot of Albanian labor. That is a SERIOUS lot of work.
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18-12-2012, 03:33
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#4
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Italy
Boat: s&s, motorsailor, 55 feet
Posts: 94
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Re: there is no starter on older perkins 4 108 with koehler generator end
hello friends
Yes, it looks like a lot of work but I like to have this kind of projects. Keeps me away from the street. What else can you do with your time. Going to church or playing golf?
But serious.
Does somebody knows about this generator.
Could not even find a manual on the net.
thanks
peter
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18-12-2012, 04:41
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#5
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Houston
Boat: '76 Allied Seawind II, 32'
Posts: 9,626
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The last one of those I was involved with started slowly and had 2 12volt 8D batteries in parallel to son it.
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18-12-2012, 05:32
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#6
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Pensacola, FL
Boat: 1969 Roamer ChrisCraft, Riveria, 46'
Posts: 133
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Hello,
I had an old Kolher 6.5 KW 4 cylinder gas banger that started the same way. There was a reversing circuit in it that used the rearend to turn the motor over. It took some juice to turn it over. I had two 12v group 31's in parallel and extended cranking would quickly drain the batteries. Luckily it normally fired in 5-10 seconds.
It was a great generator -13,000 hrs on it when I pulled it for a diesel refit. Sold it to a guy a few years back who is still running it without issues.
Later,
NJ
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18-12-2012, 06:06
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#7
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Behind the garlic curtain - east central Saskatchewan
Boat: Baylurker 2755
Posts: 608
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Re: there is no starter on older perkins 4 108 with koehler generator end
This is likely the wrong place to ask that question. Try posing the question over here: Antique Engines and Old Iron Tractors on SmokStak
Find the appropriate forum there and ask your question. Lots of smart guys there.
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18-12-2012, 07:14
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#8
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: St. Georges, Bda
Boat: Rhodes Reliant 41ft
Posts: 4,131
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Re: there is no starter on older perkins 4 108 with koehler generator end
A generator is basically a starter motor producing current instead of consuming it.
Haven't seen one of these in a while but seem to recall that the start-up mode involved a spring loaded ignition switch which held in a high- amperage latching relay, that released when output current balanced the coil power.
If you can read very poor schematics, this principle is somewhat similar in theory to how the older Onan MDK (IIRC) generator maintain their "run" condition.
Search out "DYNASTART" schematics and I think you will find the operating principles you need.
Of course there are other components involved, but the science is very basic.
__________________
so many projects--so little time !!
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18-12-2012, 20:22
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#9
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: UMR mm 283 /winter in Kansas
Boat: Bayliner 3870 41' oal.
Posts: 945
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Have you done anything to the engine in preparation to start? If it hasn't run in 10 years & wasn't stored properly it's going to need substantial work before trying to start.
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20-12-2012, 04:01
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#10
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Italy
Boat: s&s, motorsailor, 55 feet
Posts: 94
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Re: there is no starter on older perkins 4 108 with koehler generator end
thanks so far
the tip with the smokestak page I think was very good. Posted my problem there and wait now for some answers.
I am clear what to do before the actual engine can start. I think the perkins is not the problem. It turns freely. If there would be a normal starter I would get the engine running for sure.
I am only confronted the first time with starting via the genset.
I have been reading about the dynastart.
Got this story so far but it still not helps me how to start this generator.
Does somebody has more experience or by any chance a manual.
thanks
peter
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20-12-2012, 04:31
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#11
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Senior Cruiser
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario - 48-29N x 89-20W
Boat: (Cruiser Living On Dirt)
Posts: 49,085
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Re: there is no starter on older perkins 4 108 with koehler generator end
Have you tried to contact Kohler?
➥ Kohler Power: Contact Us: Marine
United States/Canada - 800-544-2444
Asia Pacific at +65 6264-6422
Europe - Middle East - Africa +33 (0) 1 49 17 83 00
Or searching their technical archives?
➥ Kohler Power: Technical Documents: Technical Library: Marine Generators
__________________
Gord May
"If you didn't have the time or money to do it right in the first place, when will you get the time/$ to fix it?"
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20-12-2012, 07:10
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#12
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Italy
Boat: s&s, motorsailor, 55 feet
Posts: 94
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Re: there is no starter on older perkins 4 108 with koehler generator end
thanks gordmay
I looked up this pages. my problem is that the unit is pre internet and I don t have any serial number. don t know even 100% the kw. Could be 12 or 15 kw.
The gen is been in the boat and the boat I bought from the yard. Never spoke to the original owner.
thanks anyway
peter
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20-12-2012, 07:40
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#13
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: UMR mm 283 /winter in Kansas
Boat: Bayliner 3870 41' oal.
Posts: 945
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Lincoln electric built some 250 amp welders with onan 2 cyl. engines that used the gen end as a starter. They used 2 large 6v batteries to energize it. 1st. if you haven't make sure your cranking batteries are charged up, check all cable (what ga. are they) are clean & tight connections. The Lincoln welders started cranking slow & then would increase, check your voltage while cranking at both ends of the cables, there may be internal corrosion causing a drop in voltage. This is from my memory of using one over 30 years ago Good luck
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20-12-2012, 13:40
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#14
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Italy
Boat: s&s, motorsailor, 55 feet
Posts: 94
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Re: there is no starter on older perkins 4 108 with koehler generator end
hello
thanks I get the story better now. It is possible that the batteries been not fully charged.
What concerned me that the negative connection got so hot.
I stopped trying because I was afraid to damage something. Never was confronted with a system like this.
Still the question does somebody has an idea about the model number of the unit.
thanks
peter
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20-12-2012, 19:57
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#15
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Marine Service Provider
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 1,109
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Re: there is no starter on older perkins 4 108 with koehler generator end
Quote:
Originally Posted by awab
hello
thanks I get the story better now. It is possible that the batteries been not fully charged.
What concerned me that the negative connection got so hot.
I stopped trying because I was afraid to damage something. Never was confronted with a system like this.
Still the question does somebody has an idea about the model number of the unit.
thanks
peter
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Peter, you just answered your own question.
Absolutely none of the connections nor the conductors should get hot. Do a voltage drop test across the neg and pos cables, at each connection.
This will give you the answer you seek.
Lloyd
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