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Old 26-12-2016, 07:43   #1
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Tesla power wall?

I'm new to this board so please forgive my early questions...

I did a search and didn't get any hits for the Tesla power wall use on a boat as your house battery system. Anyone using this system or a home made knock off of this? I know that the original production batch sold out, perhaps someone here is a buyer, i don't know. There are also a lot of youtube instructional videos of companies making or showing how to make a similar lithium ion battery pack.

So i'm curious if this is something that would really work well on a sail boat?

10kwh for approximately $3500 USD does seem like a steep initial investment, but with a good charge controller and taking good care of this system, it should power all your needs? Or, if you could source the lithium ion batteries and build your own it could be cheaper.

Thoughts?
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Old 26-12-2016, 09:14   #2
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Re: Tesla power wall?

Easy to google and miss. There was some discussion here...

New Tesla Powerwall 2.0
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Old 26-12-2016, 11:54   #3
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Re: Tesla power wall?

That's interesting...

I believe there is another sailing couple, Gone with the Wynns, who have lithium batteries for their house system. I know that salt water and just about anything don't mix well but seems to me there has to be a way to keep these batteries safe?

http://hackaday.com/2016/09/29/homeb...ting-at-20kwh/

here's a home made system.
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Old 27-12-2016, 05:10   #4
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Re: Tesla power wall?

Your search can find lots of threads here about lithium battery systems; IIRC, one was several gazillion pages long...

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Old 27-12-2016, 05:28   #5
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Re: Tesla power wall?

CJ also have a read of this. I believe the author is on this forum.

LiFePO4 Batteries - Thoughts & Musings Photo Gallery by Compass Marine How To at pbase.com

If all that becomes to complex google Firefly batteries, they seam to be better than agm but simpler than Lithium.
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Old 27-12-2016, 09:27   #6
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Re: Tesla power wall?

I briefly looked at the power wall a while back. As I remember it has all the battery management built in to the system so you don't have all the complexities of those installing DIY with batteries separate from the controls built around them. The website posted above is for those type of systems and you probably don't want to go down that route unless you are not faint of heart.

That is not to say that the owner of that site would not have some excellent thoughts about batteries such as the Power Wall. One of the big issues is whether it would be good for the usage and charging patterns on boats which is radically different than for a house and cars.
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Old 27-12-2016, 09:53   #7
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Re: Tesla power wall?

If I recall correctly, the power wall specifically excludes mobile usage. It is not meant to take the possible harsh movement of a boat environment.
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Old 27-12-2016, 09:59   #8
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Re: Tesla power wall?

There's a reason why reputable marine suppliers specify lithium iron phosphate.

The powerball is innovative in its expected management integration with Tesla and solar city and its expected low cost batteries. Neither benefits the marine environment.
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Old 27-12-2016, 10:34   #9
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Re: Tesla power wall?

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Originally Posted by SV DestinyAscen View Post
There's a reason why reputable marine suppliers specify lithium iron phosphate.

The powerball is innovative in its expected management integration with Tesla and solar city and its expected low cost batteries. Neither benefits the marine environment.
The first gen powerwall is intended for load sharing and not as a dedicated house battery.

Like most cheap non marinised things they rarely last long in a marine application.

I'm sure many will trial this. I wont be one of them but I'll be watching closely.

PS our trojans are 10 years old this year and still going strong.
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Old 27-12-2016, 10:41   #10
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Re: Tesla power wall?

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The first gen powerwall is intended for load sharing and not as a dedicated house battery.

Like most cheap non marinised things they rarely last long in a marine application.

I'm sure many will trial this. I wont be one of them but I'll be watching closely.

PS our trojans are 10 years old this year and still going strong.
I hope no one experiments with their boat with a powerwall. Boeing, FAA and their Japanese battery partners dedicated years to make the chemistry safe (design picked before iron phosphate chemistry was available) and it turned out to be a very expensive mistake. They still don't know why the batteries had thermal runaway and thankfully it's always on the ground and the aircraft freely vents battery gases external. Can't imagine what will happen to a thermal runaway in a boat cabin.
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Old 28-12-2016, 09:31   #11
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Re: Tesla power wall?

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If I recall correctly, the power wall specifically excludes mobile usage. It is not meant to take the possible harsh movement of a boat environment.
I saw this as well.
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Old 29-12-2016, 07:16   #12
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Re: Tesla power wall?

Still... the technology is worth keeping an ion.

Bah ha ha ha ha ha!!!! See what I did there?

Seriously, this tech could mature in a couple of years and be a contender for house batteries.
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Old 29-12-2016, 15:29   #13
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Re: Tesla power wall?

I know that on my land cruiser expedition vehicle i have been using a large marine Diehard AGM battery. It has handled extreme heat, vibrations from washboard roads, hard core 4wheeling and has done well.

The only thing that has affected it negatively is not being properly charged. The AGM batteries were really designed to have a charge controller on them and not be topped of by an alternator.

When parked for days on end with the solar panels out, it powers everything from the fridge, lights in the tent, radios, music, charged cell phones and iPads and anything else i can throw at it. After 5 years it's been exceptional. I finally damaged it by not catching a short in the system which drained it 100% and it's never recovered from that.
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Old 30-12-2016, 08:03   #14
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Re: Tesla power wall?

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Originally Posted by JohnEasley View Post
Still... the technology is worth keeping an ion.

Bah ha ha ha ha ha!!!! See what I did there?

Seriously, this tech could mature in a couple of years and be a contender for house batteries.
Two big issues for marine use are extensive vibration and shock. One of the reasons the Power Wall is not suitable (from what I have seen and heard and whey the vendor does not want them used for marine) is that it is not vibration and shock protected. It would be expensive and require significant design changes (is using current tech) to make them marine ready.

As always, one of the biggest deterrents to tech moving to boats is the high development and marketing cost for a "small" market. I am still waiting for the carbon foam batteries to evolve beyond the one and only one size that is offered. It is fine for trucks and buses, which have huge numbers and the market they were designed and marketed for, and OK for smaller boats, but not so much for larger boats. They are being sold for wide marine use but it seems to be a bit of "off label" use and not widely available, so that there isn't a lot of real world experience with them for cruisers at least. Many vendors will look at this and decide "why bother"?
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Old 30-12-2016, 08:45   #15
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Re: Tesla power wall?

never heard of the carbon foam batteries. I'll have to google those. That sounds interesting.

In the RC world, LiPo batteries have become very popular. I don't think they would have much use in the marine world as they are designed mostly to dump large amounts of power at a time. They are super light weight and carry large charges and can handle vibrations and movement very easy. But, i'm not sure about how they will handle heat. I could see you getting large amounts of amp hours out of them, but don't know they are a good choice.

It's crazy to see how many people eventually fall back to the lead acid batteries. They just work great if you take care of them. Check to see they are full of water and keep going. But, they are heavy and large.
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