Tale of an amazing AGM battery

[Maine Sail]

Keep in mind that the Optima's of 11 years ago were made by EnerSys, the company that invented the technology. EnerSys sold it off because they developed the Odyssey TPPL AGM battery. The quality today is arguably not what it was when they are made by EnerSys now that they are made by Johnson Controls (JCI). I have a dead bank of blue tops to replace in the next month or so that are only about 4 years old. These I believe are JCI Optima's though, not EnerSys..

The nice thing about Orbital AGM's or TPPL or most standard AGM's is their ability to drive big loads like a windlass and not fall down on low voltage. They make great windlass batteries and can last a good long time doing so..

As for great life this was a battery only cycled to approx 10% DOD for 660 cycles then recharged to 100% SOC. It is at 80% of its rated Ah capacity.

An Odyssey battery (same maker as the Optima FlyingCloud has) is "lab rated" to approx 7500 cycles at a just 10% DOD.. Even if we cut the lab rating by 3X, for the real world that is still 2500 cycles before the battery should hit 80% of rated Ah capacity. Course we have heat and calendar life too but we've already cut the lab rating by 3X to try and compensate for that.... Outstanding performance? Not really. Good performance, sure..

I have a Prevailer GEL bank, that is actually deep cycled, and it broke into its 15th year in September. Outstanding based on cycles (about 700), no, good yes...

Most batteries are murdered by their owners. FlyingCould I am sure set these batteries up with the correct charge profile, a temp sensor and treated them as they should be. Exceptional based on 10% DOD for 660 cycles, not based on what they should deliver based on lab numbers but still darn good..

[Terra Nova]

That clears it up.

[Maine Sail]

Originally Posted by Terra Nova

Not sure how you reached that conclusion. But it sounds like a criminal act to wire a windlass with 50' of 4-ga wire. It may not hurt the battery. But it will surely destroy the more expensive windlass.

As read it the Duo Charger is wired with 4GA. The Duo can only supply 30A and 4GA gets you about a 2.6% voltage drop at 14.6V... The battery directly powers the windlass and has a much shorter run.... The 4 GA only delivers charge current to the battery not windlass current...

EDIT: Never mind I see this was already cleared up. Note to self; Read entire thread first....

[FlyingCloud1937]

Yes to all below, except DOD. The windlass a 1937 vintage original voltage of 32 volt, was rewired 12 volt. The uptake is 1/2 foot per second, due to the gear reduction.

Also about half of those up-hauls were in a stern tie, where the anchor anchor is dropped free hanging 125 feet up to 175 feet, then backed down on until it contacts the submerged slope, then a stern line to shore.

Then on release of the stern line the boat motored forward, and the windlass has to haul the full weight of the chain and anchor, back aboard.

Yes the duo was set up at proper charge, and temp corrected.

Also note when the test were done the battery was a temp of 52F. I now have it sitting in the shop at 75F fully re-charged and will run both test again, and report back.

Lloyd

Originally Posted by Maine Sail

Keep in mind that the Optima's of 11 years ago were made by EnerSys, the company that invented the technology. EnerSys sold it off because they developed the Odyssey TPPL AGM battery. The quality today is arguably not what it was when they are made by EnerSys now that they are made by Johnson Controls (JCI). I have a dead bank of blue tops to replace in the next month or so that are only about 4 years old. These I believe are JCI Optima's though, not EnerSys..

The nice thing about Orbital AGM's or TPPL or most standard AGM's is their ability to drive big loads like a windlass and not fall down on low voltage. They make great windlass batteries and can last a good long time doing so..

As for great life this was a battery only cycled to approx 10% DOD for 660 cycles then recharged to 100% SOC. It is at 80% of its rated Ah capacity.

An Odyssey battery (same maker as the Optima FlyingCloud has) is "lab rated" to approx 7500 cycles at a just 10% DOD.. Even if we cut the lab rating by 3X, for the real world that is still 2500 cycles before the battery should hit 80% of rated Ah capacity. Course we have heat and calendar life too but we've already cut the lab rating by 3X to try and compensate for that.... Outstanding performance? Not really. Good performance, sure..

I have a Prevailer GEL bank, that is actually deep cycled, and it broke into its 15th year in September. Outstanding based on cycles (about 700), no, good yes...

Most batteries are murdered by their owners. FlyingCould I am sure set these batteries up with the correct charge profile, a temp sensor and treated them as they should be. Exceptional based on 10% DOD for 660 cycles, not based on what they should deliver based on lab numbers but still darn good..

[Cheechako]

Originally Posted by smac999

The 4awg was his charger wire....

Right!

[Nicholson58]

Originally Posted by Mag Dumais

I am currently researching the proper battery charger and regulator for AGM batteries. What I found out is that current chargers are mainly made to recharge Wet Cells (acid-lead) batteries. Even if manufacturers claim to have AGM preset programmation, their numbers when reaching Abs stage and float stage do not match what battery maker demands.

I intend to install the same AGM batteries for both the house & start banks; therefore the same recharching program for both banks.

As Lifeline and Rolls are my favorite batteries, could someone suggest me what to buy as 120VAC battery charger and 12VDC regulator?

NB. the discontinued IMC series from Charles Industry seem to me the best AGM charger so far.

Cheers

Mag

I buy my LIFELINEs direct to our shipping dock from the factory - big savings.

I charge with a Xantrex 2.5 KW with a programmable controller. There is a pre-set but you can change it. I run a BALMAR on the engine alternator.

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by Nicholson58

I buy my LIFELINEs direct to our shipping dock from the factory - big savings.

How do you do that? Do you have a link or phone number to where I could do that?

[Scout 30]

I run a house bank with 4 T-105s & a starting bank with one optima blue top. I'm on my third set of Trojans but still on the first optima I bought 12 years ago. Sad to hear that a different company makes them now.

[Maine Sail]

Originally Posted by FlyingCloud1937

Also note when the test were done the battery was a temp of 52F. I now have it sitting in the shop at 75F fully re-charged and will run both test again, and report back.

Lloyd

I would expect you to see in the range 17+/- hours at 75F vs. 52F.. What are you using for a DC constant load while discharging?

[FlyingCloud1937]

A Meanwell Train supply, 12 to 12volt DC CC to a load bank of switched halogen bulbs. While it isn't a true load/time tester, it comes about as close as I need.

Yea, I don't expect much gain in amp hrs.

I've decided that I will install it as my Nav/Electronics bank, added with another Duo-Charge and a 1-2 switch. That way can get some useful life out of the bat, with a back up by the house bank. I haven't needed a separate bank for Nav...in the past 14 years.

So its the only thing I can think of. Do to its age I wouldn't put it into critical service.

Lloyd

Originally Posted by Maine Sail

I would expect you to see in the range 17+/- hours at 75F vs. 52F.. What are you using for a DC constant load while discharging?

[Nicholson58]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

How do you do that? Do you have a link or phone number to where I could do that?

GO to their web site and get the phone number. I build special machinery for testing cars, electric vehicles, windmills so I was able to get favorable pricing. Shipping to a regular shipping & receiving dock is also important.

I always shop around on the web and often try to deal direct if possible.

[sailinglegend]

My Lifeline AGMs have lasted 10 years as a full time Liveaboard in the Med for 7 years.

I equalise them twice a year and they are still going well. We anchor all the time in the summer and I try to get them back to a genuine 100% at least every 2-3 weeks by shorepower.

[doctorbill]

I am liveaboard in a slip hooked to shore power. I am wondering for best battery health if I should ever unplug from shore power and cycle my AGM's or just always stay hooked up. The batteries are tended by a Xantrex unit.

Of course I do go multi- day cruising a few times per year, but I'm more wondering for those times when it's been 3 months or more without deep cycling?


Sent from my iPhone using Cruisers Sailing Forum

[NewMoon]

Originally Posted by doctorbill

I am liveaboard in a slip hooked to shore power. I am wondering for best battery health if I should ever unplug from shore power and cycle my AGM's or just always stay hooked up. The batteries are tended by a Xantrex unit.

Of course I do go multi- day cruising a few times per year, but I'm more wondering for those times when it's been 3 months or more without deep cycling?

FWIW, my boat stays hooked up to 110V power with the Link 2000 controlling a Freedom 10 charger all winter, which in my case is 6 months of indoor storage with minimal current draw. Cruising in the summer is generally 3 months, anchoring w/o a generator 2/3-3/4 of the nights. My first AGM house bank (2 Deka g31's) lasted 11 years.