Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 01-06-2011, 06:32   #1
Long Range Cruiser
 
MarkJ's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Australian living on "Sea Life" currently in England.
Boat: Beneteau 393 "Sea Life"
Posts: 12,828
Images: 25
Solenoids - Do Continuous Duty and Intermitant do the Same Thing ?

Hi Folks

My solenoid that switches charging to my starter battery or my house bank is playing up and I need to replace it.

The toss up is between Cole Hersee Solenoid
24143 Solenoid 12V 200A Continuous $77.75
24059 Solenoid 12V 85A $36.50 (Intermittent)

Now in laymans terms (i.e. I'm jus a dumb-bum cruiser) does the continuous do the same as the Intermittent, but the Continuous can do it for longer and getting hot won't worry it?



Thanky for speakin simply


I should be getting the Continuous, shouldn't I?



Mark
__________________

__________________
Notes on a Circumnavigation.
OurLifeAtSea.com

Somalia Pirates and our Convoy
MarkJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2011, 06:46   #2
Senior Cruiser
 
Blue Stocking's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: St. Georges, Bda
Boat: Rhodes Reliant 41ft
Posts: 4,117
Re: Solenoids: Do Continuous Duty and Intermitant do the same thing?

Your "laymens terms" description is correct, but I'm curious, A solenoid is basically an ON/OFF switch. How are you using it as a selector switch?
__________________

__________________
so many projects--so little time !!
Blue Stocking is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2011, 06:46   #3
Registered User
 
courageous cat's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: michigan
Boat: g-cat 5. m
Posts: 156
Images: 1
Re: Solenoids: Do Continuous Duty and Intermitant do the same thing?

hi mark, yes you will want a coutinuous duty. intermittent is for thing like starter, they are ment for shorter run time. not that they wound not work for awhile, but would crap out on you and you be spending more $$$.
__________________
courageous cat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2011, 06:51   #4
Registered User
 
anjou's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Malvernshire, on the sunny side of the hill.
Boat: 50' steel canal and river cruiser
Posts: 1,905
Re: Solenoids: Do Continuous Duty and Intermitant do the same thing?

You wouldnt want to waste your precious beer by having to pour it on a fire now would you?

Get the higher continuous rated one and sleep easier
__________________
www.amy-artimis.blogspot.com
anjou is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2011, 06:52   #5
Moderator Emeritus
 
GordMay's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario - 48-29N x 89-20W
Boat: (Cruiser Living On Dirt)
Posts: 31,586
Images: 240
Re: Solenoids: Do Continuous Duty and Intermitant do the same thing?

Yes & yes.
__________________
Gord May
"If you didn't have the time or money to do it right in the first place, when will you get the time/$ to fix it?"



GordMay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2011, 06:59   #6
Long Range Cruiser
 
MarkJ's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Australian living on "Sea Life" currently in England.
Boat: Beneteau 393 "Sea Life"
Posts: 12,828
Images: 25
Re: Solenoids: Do Continuous Duty and Intermitant do the same thing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by courageous cat View Post
intermittent , but would crap out on you and you be spending more $$$.


Which is what I think has happened. I replaced it 2 years ago and probably bought the intermittent as I remember the price.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue Stocking View Post
I'm curious, A solenoid is basically an ON/OFF switch. How are you using it as a selector switch?

'Mine is not to reason why,
Mine is but to do and die.'

I dunno. I am just replacing whats there in the configuration thats been used by Beneteau. If it didn't work they wouldn't use it.

However, at some stage, I would like to investigate a better solution. From a quick read of the catalogue I can't get a better option that won't take a complete re-wire, or investigation by some competent electrical person. Its kind of a project for 'next year'.

Thanks, both of you, for your advice and help




'Next year'... when do the damn projects ever finish?


Mark
__________________
Notes on a Circumnavigation.
OurLifeAtSea.com

Somalia Pirates and our Convoy
MarkJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2011, 07:01   #7
Long Range Cruiser
 
MarkJ's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Australian living on "Sea Life" currently in England.
Boat: Beneteau 393 "Sea Life"
Posts: 12,828
Images: 25
Re: Solenoids: Do Continuous Duty and Intermitant do the same thing?

Thanks Gord and Anjou

I love 'Yes!' Its an answer that works for me


Mark
__________________
Notes on a Circumnavigation.
OurLifeAtSea.com

Somalia Pirates and our Convoy
MarkJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2011, 07:14   #8
Registered User
 
courageous cat's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: michigan
Boat: g-cat 5. m
Posts: 156
Images: 1
Re: Solenoids: Do Continuous Duty and Intermitant do the same thing?

COLE 24059-BX

Solenoid - 12VDC Continuous Duty

Continuous Rating: 85A
Maximum Rating: 85A
Maximum Current Make/Break: 85A
Grounded with SPST circuitry.

now the questionis how many amps will be going through it
__________________
courageous cat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2011, 07:21   #9
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Seattle
Boat: Cal 40
Posts: 2,401
Images: 7
Re: Solenoids: Do Continuous Duty and Intermitant do the same thing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue Stocking View Post
Your "laymens terms" description is correct, but I'm curious, A solenoid is basically an ON/OFF switch. How are you using it as a selector switch?
Computerless battery combiner. Connect the coil of the solenoid to the same circuit as your oil pressure switch and the batteries are tied together whenever the oil pressure is good on the engine. Or you can just connect it to the key switch on the engine panel. See Calder's book.

And yes there are several threads discussing the pros and cons of this and other battery combiners.

John
__________________
cal40john is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2011, 08:31   #10
Senior Cruiser
 
Blue Stocking's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: St. Georges, Bda
Boat: Rhodes Reliant 41ft
Posts: 4,117
Re: Solenoids: Do Continuous Duty and Intermitant do the same thing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by cal40john View Post
Computerless battery combiner. Connect the coil of the solenoid to the same circuit as your oil pressure switch and the batteries are tied together whenever the oil pressure is good on the engine. Or you can just connect it to the key switch on the engine panel. See Calder's book.

And yes there are several threads discussing the pros and cons of this and other battery combiners.

John
Mark's first line doesn't suggest, to me, that is how its wired. He asks, switching between house and start banks.
__________________
so many projects--so little time !!
Blue Stocking is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2011, 08:55   #11
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Chesapeake Region and Maine
Boat: 42' Bob Perry sloop
Posts: 4,038
Images: 4
Re: Solenoids: Do Continuous Duty and Intermitant do the same thing?

MarkJ,

I'm confused.

Do you really want a solenoid to switch charging between the house and start batteries, or do you want a start solenoid to start the engine?

If the latter, then an 85A capacity is way too small. Starters even on small-to-midsize diesels can draw 200A or more.

If it's really to switch charging between the house and start batteries, there are much better ways. The Xantrex EchoCharge device would very likely do the trick and is very easy to wire. It costs about the same as the solenoids you're looking at. And....no switching required. It's fully automatic.

There are other possibilities. It could be that someone has set up the boat to use a solenoid as a battery switch, i.e., to choose one battery or another. Or, you might have an ACR (automatic charging relay).

Really need to know what your setup is. Can you trace out the wires?

FWIW,

Bill
__________________
btrayfors is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2011, 08:59   #12
Senior Cruiser
 
Blue Stocking's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: St. Georges, Bda
Boat: Rhodes Reliant 41ft
Posts: 4,117
Re: Solenoids - Do Continuous Duty and Intermitant do the Same Thing ?

Thats what I was getting at Bill
__________________
so many projects--so little time !!
Blue Stocking is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2011, 09:52   #13
Registered User
 
Capt.Don's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Altadena, CA
Boat: Tartan 3500
Posts: 611
Images: 1
Re: Solenoids - Do Continuous Duty and Intermitant do the Same Thing ?

Mark,
I went through this with our new / used boat. It boils down to usage and several things lead me to disconnecting the solenoid. Our Heart/Freedom inverter/charger has an echo charge circuit. When under shore power or alternator and house and start banks are charged (the echo charge is limited to 15 amps, though). One of the main considerations is if/when the house bank is drawn down, putting the house and start in parallel is a bad idea. The start capacity may charge the house and not be sufficient for starting the boat. We also have a 1-2-Both combiner switch, so if I ever wanted to put both banks in parallel, I can set the switch to Both. I am able to isolate the start bank with a separate engine start on/off switch, which keeps the start out of the circuit, regardless of where I set the combiner switch. I also found an electronic battery combiner in the circuit, which can be used in lieu of an echo charge.

To me (in my case), the benefit of the solenoid combining the house and start was a matter of convenience. This way the operator doesn't have to think about the settings. I opted for simplicity and removed the solenoid and battery combiner. So far, I am happy with this decision.
Don
__________________
Capt.Don is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2011, 10:29   #14
Long Range Cruiser
 
MarkJ's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Australian living on "Sea Life" currently in England.
Boat: Beneteau 393 "Sea Life"
Posts: 12,828
Images: 25
Re: Solenoids: Do Continuous Duty and Intermitant do the same thing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by btrayfors View Post
MarkJ,

I'm confused.

Do you really want a solenoid to switch charging between the house and start batteries, or do you want a start solenoid to start the engine?

If the latter, then an 85A capacity is way too small. Starters even on small-to-midsize diesels can draw 200A or more. Bill
Yes, I got the 85 amp continious - I ahve 80 amp alternator.


Hi Bill,

Its doesn't have anything to do with starting the engine.

When the engine starts if charging is correct the Start Battery gets charge as does the House Battery.
If the soleniod does not work correctly the House Battery gets NO charge.

In the last few months I have had to start the engine at high revs to make the Solenoid kick in, and the last few starts I have had to tap the solenoid to make the house batterys start charging.

Now, as explained earlier, I don't know why they have done it this way. I can not trace the wires as the disappear and I get confuthed

Yes, I am looking for a different solution at some stage, if I can get someone who knows this type of boat to tell me why its like this.

No, the Xantrax echo~charge is not the solution as it is limited to 15 amps and my alternator puts out 80 amps. There must be another unit that would be right for me.


So, Bill, the solution Beneteau has come up with is not 'elegant' however it works and is obviously a) cheap b) easy to maintain.
Maybe it is an elegant solution, I just don't know.

However, re-wiring is not my priority this year: I have to haul; I need davits/arch; Dodger; new Genoa; New covers, Bimini and boom. (and some accounts to pay at home).

I just can't afford to pull something apart thats working. And $36 to keep it working is nothing
__________________
Notes on a Circumnavigation.
OurLifeAtSea.com

Somalia Pirates and our Convoy
MarkJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2011, 10:36   #15
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Seattle
Boat: Cal 40
Posts: 2,401
Images: 7
Re: Solenoids: Do Continuous Duty and Intermitant do the same thing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkJ View Post
Yes, I got the 85 amp continious - I ahve 80 amp alternator.


No, the Xantrax echo~charge is not the solution as it is limited to 15 amps and my alternator puts out 80 amps. There must be another unit that would be right for me.

The echo charge can be a solution if you're interested. Think of it as a battery charger that uses an input voltage of around 14 volts that charges your start battery with a maximum output of 15 amps, which is more than enough if the start battery has only been used to start the engine.

Johnn
__________________

__________________
cal40john is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Name One Thing You Love and One Thing You Hate About Cruising ty.gregory The Sailor's Confessional 54 20-03-2015 12:10
Solenoids old bradders Marine Electronics 25 20-12-2010 13:29
Intermitant Non charging on House only MarkJ Electrical: Batteries, Generators & Solar 32 28-02-2009 07:42
Yanmar intermitant tach and instruments Celestialsailor Engines and Propulsion Systems 6 24-07-2007 20:50



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 13:34.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.