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16-12-2019, 12:11
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#16
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cruiser
Join Date: Jan 2017
Boat: Retired from CF
Posts: 13,317
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Re: solar and a vsr
To just answer the question, the VSR/ACR goes between the two circuits you want to be paralleled **only** when a charge source is active.
If there is a charge source on either side, and you want their current to flow in either direction, then be sure to buy a combiner that is dual sensing and 2-way.
Quote:
Originally Posted by john61ct
One big House bank, VSR goes from there to the Starter, ideally all charge sources go directly to House.
If not, make sure it's two-way, dual sensing type.
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Of course in order to isolate properly when no charge source is active, there can't be any other connections bridging the two circuits.
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16-12-2019, 12:12
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#17
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Scotland
Boat: 42ft Moody Ketch
Posts: 643
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Re: solar and a vsr
Flawed
having or characterized by a fundamental weakness or imperfection.
As all sailors and sailboats and manufactures do things differently form each other the word Flawed is not IMHO appropriate to the OP it is not imperfect just not utilising space, cables , batteries , energy and potential reduced battery function,
and there is no fundamental weakness in his set up as he said been going like that for 6 years so it works , many things in life can be expressed as over engineered , but that is a debate not a given fact. One competent technician will give a different answer to another .
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16-12-2019, 12:32
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#18
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Alert Bay, Vancouver Island
Boat: 35ft classic ketch/yawl.
Posts: 1,980
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Re: solar and a vsr
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elevation
... I have thought of installing a vsr so that the excess amps can be funneled to the domestic battery. Where in the system would i install the vsr ?. I believe it should be between the solar batts and the mppt controller. thus when solar charged batts get to (say) 13.5 vollts the vsr energises and directs excess amps to the domestic battery
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On you current setup this will likely cause problems because of the different batterys. The VSR will combine both batteries together as a single unit. The charge contoller, either solar or from the alternator, will then be charging both batteries together. If it is set for open L/A you will destroy the AGM one by overcharging it. If set for the AGM the 6v batteries will not get fully charged so will die from sulphation.
To make it work you need to remove one battery and combine everything together so that all the panels feed into a single bank with the controllers set for that bank. You can leave the start battery independent with is own solar panel and controller. If your start batt is an open L/A it can safely be charged with the house bank from alternator regulator set for open L/A but again if it is sealed and the house bank is open you would have a conflict in settings.
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16-12-2019, 13:14
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#19
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cruiser
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Lake Ontario
Boat: Ontario 38 / Douglas 32 Mk II
Posts: 3,250
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Re: solar and a vsr
Quote:
Originally Posted by tarian
Flawed
having or characterized by a fundamental weakness or imperfection.
As all sailors and sailboats and manufactures do things differently form each other the word Flawed is not IMHO appropriate to the OP it is not imperfect just not utilising space, cables , batteries , energy and potential reduced battery function,
and there is no fundamental weakness in his set up as he said been going like that for 6 years so it works , many things in life can be expressed as over engineered , but that is a debate not a given fact. One competent technician will give a different answer to another .
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Please; now we have to argue over the definition of the word “flawed”?
Let’s not miss the forest for the tiny blade of grass in front of it.
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16-12-2019, 13:24
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#20
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cruiser
Join Date: Jan 2017
Boat: Retired from CF
Posts: 13,317
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Re: solar and a vsr
There are FLA / AGM lines that have setpoint ranges that overlap.
OP does not seem to fussed about getting things just right anyway, so suggesting B2B chargers over VSRs although technically a better solution, is unlikely to be well received.
Side note, six years is not that long time, many cruisers have banks that last over twice that long.
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16-12-2019, 20:40
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#21
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Boat: Island Packet 40
Posts: 6,432
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Re: solar and a vsr
Quote:
Originally Posted by roland stockham
On you current setup this will likely cause problems because of the different batterys. The VSR will combine both batteries together as a single unit. The charge contoller, either solar or from the alternator, will then be charging both batteries together. If it is set for open L/A you will destroy the AGM one by overcharging it. If set for the AGM the 6v batteries will not get fully charged so will die from sulphation.
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Which is why I suggested a regulator for each battery bank type.
I used a multi regulator arrangement on a previous boat even though the four battery banks were all FLA. I did this because the regulators I used were high quality but of limited capacity so as I added panels and battery banks over a number of years I gained redundancy as well as being able to monitor the behaviour of the individual banks.
I also had a cross bar load distribution system which allowed me to re-designate the loads and charging sources by the installation or removal of a single brass screw in each instance.
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17-12-2019, 07:16
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#22
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2019
Location: South Carolina
Boat: Philip Rhodes Custom 71'
Posts: 190
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Re: solar and a vsr
I feel a need to correct some misunderstandings, in particular the article in https://marinehowto.com/automatic-charging-relays/
The Combiner/VSR idea was invented about 1990 by Chuck Hawley of West Marine as a better solution than isolator diodes. He discussed it with me and our first West Marine Combiner came out about 1991. We sold them under the W.M. brand name for about 14 years until W.M. stopped putting their name on other manufacturer's products. All the rest are copies.
Ann-Marie Foster
Yandina LLC
__________________
Ann-Marie Foster
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17-12-2019, 07:46
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#23
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Cowichan Bay, BC (Maple Bay Marina)
Posts: 9,704
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Re: solar and a vsr
Quote:
Originally Posted by YANDINA
I feel a need to correct some misunderstandings, in particular the article in https://marinehowto.com/automatic-charging-relays/
The Combiner/VSR idea was invented about 1990 by Chuck Hawley of West Marine as a better solution than isolator diodes. He discussed it with me and our first West Marine Combiner came out about 1991. We sold them under the W.M. brand name for about 14 years until W.M. stopped putting their name on other manufacturer's products. All the rest are copies.
Ann-Marie Foster
Yandina LLC
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Thanks for that trip down memory lane. I met Chuck at one of his early WM sessions in the Oakland store, and here's my notes from when I bought my combiner:
Battery Combiner 1-Oct-98 WMP #134108 $114.99 130 A / 2 bank
Still working great, superb product.
I bought it because unlike many other boaters at the time with multiple output shorepower chargers, I had installed a Freedom 15 I/C to replace a crappy old charger from 1986. Thus, not only did I have only a one output charger, but so was my alternator. The combiner made things much simpler.
As Maine Sail has written, I put my switch on the house bank whenever I use the boat, and I'm done. Check and use the reserve bank sometimes to assure its continued operation.
Thanks again.
__________________
Stu Jackson
Catalina 34 #224 (1986) C34IA Secretary
Cowichan Bay, BC, SR/FK, M25, Rocna 10 (22#) (NZ model)
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