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Old 12-05-2013, 18:53   #16
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Also note that marine rated wire is not tinned wire, i.e. there is bare copper marine rated wire.

I have found pieces of 19 year old tinned wire that looked worse than 19 year old bare copper wire, and the other way around. Tinned wire solders easier though
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Old 12-05-2013, 18:54   #17
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Re: So who has tinned battery and other equally fat cables all tinned?

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Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
Tinned wire is available in Europe through industrial specialist wire & cable suppliers. It is not common in yachts therefore generally not available in chandleries etc

Dave
I find it readily available in chandlers and electrical suppliers in most of Europe ! and any decent yacht is wired with tinned copper I have found... Harder to find in SE Asia but I still found some ....
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Old 12-05-2013, 19:42   #18
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Thanks,

I think this thread now makes it clear that fat cabling does not need to be tinned but does need to have the ends terminated in the right way.
I used the word fat so I did not have to write 50mm2, 70mm2 00AWG etc.

I think it is important that the forums provide the right information to those looking for advice. I think it is now made clear that tinned is better but it its completely ok to use non tinned marine grade cable.

Correct lugs,crimping and heat shrinking is more important.
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Old 12-05-2013, 20:39   #19
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Re: So who has tinned battery and other equally fat cables all tinned?

I can tell you that untinned welding cable is not the best stuff for fat cables--the strands are much thinner and more susceptible to oxidization. I pulled out a windlass cable out a friend's boat and large sections of the cable were basically dust.
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Old 12-05-2013, 21:03   #20
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Re: So who has tinned battery and other equally fat cables all tinned?

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Originally Posted by rwidman View Post
I'm still wondering what "fat" cabling is.
I'm thinking he means bigger than your thumb rather than phone wire.
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Old 12-05-2013, 21:23   #21
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I have purchased tinned marine wire by the foot from Skycraft Parts and Surplus in Orlando Florida. Great service shipped the same day I ordered it. They have a wire department with people that know wire!
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Old 12-05-2013, 21:36   #22
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Re: So who has tinned battery and other equally fat cables all tinned?

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I'm still wondering what "fat" cabling is.
Today I just hooked up a 3-phase 208 volt gen-set, and each of the three cables is the equal to cm 4 X's 4-0..., plus 1 4 X 4-0 for the neutral , and add one size smaller for the earth safety.

It takes a horse and a mule to run that cable.

That's what I call fat cable.

4-0 is nothing more then #10 gauge in that respect.

Cable is always sized to the voltage drop of the load.

Lloyd
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Old 12-05-2013, 21:51   #23
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Re: So who has tinned battery and other equally fat cables all tinned?

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Thanks,

I think this thread now makes it clear that fat cabling does not need to be tinned but does need to have the ends terminated in the right way.
I used the word fat so I did not have to write 50mm2, 70mm2 00AWG etc.

I think it is important that the forums provide the right information to those looking for advice. I think it is now made clear that tinned is better but it its completely ok to use non tinned marine grade cable.

Correct lugs,crimping and heat shrinking is more important.
Running fat cable is a 4 X's labor rate, and tinned over bare cooper in parts costs is about a 30% premium.

Labor is now on average about 80% labor to material, just 20 years ago that ratio was at 40, and 30 years ago it was 15% labor to parts.

Do the math, today it is way cheaper to buy parts then labor.

I have 15 different crimp tools that all do a different job, and each tool exceeds $200.00 some topping at $1800.00. That doesn't count all of the other specialty tools, plus normal tools. Labor covers over-head...tools are over-head.

No wonder labor costs like it does, when you hire a professional.

go ahead and buy all the tools, to do a professional job.

Lloyd
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Old 12-05-2013, 21:53   #24
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Re: So who has tinned battery and other equally fat cables all tinned?

Jedi, Ive been waiting for somebody to say the word!! Solder !! I still solder all my battery connections. (and most all of the rest also) Useing tinned cable, and wires
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Old 12-05-2013, 22:36   #25
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Re: So who has tinned battery and other equally fat cables all tinned?

I used tinned for all the smaller wires and anything running outside the cabin. For anything larger than AWG4 I just use regular copper wire. I also use adhesive shrink tube and tinned crimp connectors on everything.

My 1982 Hatteras has welding cable for the battery connections - this was apparently standard for Hatteras of that era. After 30 years it is still fine but I will be inspecting it this summer with the intent of replacing it all.
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Old 12-05-2013, 22:42   #26
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Re: So who has tinned battery and other equally fat cables all tinned?

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Jedi, Ive been waiting for somebody to say the word!! Solder !! I still solder all my battery connections. (and most all of the rest also) Useing tinned cable, and wires

Why, exactly?

Do you solder?

?
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Old 12-05-2013, 23:02   #27
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Re: So who has tinned battery and other equally fat cables all tinned?

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I used tinned for all the smaller wires and anything running outside the cabin. For anything larger than AWG4 I just use regular copper wire. I also use adhesive shrink tube and tinned crimp connectors on everything.
If you spend the money on tinned lugs, and crimp, Why not tinned wire? A copper wire to a copper lug with a gas tight crimp would be a lower resistance connection? Tinned anything only adds resistance.

Quote:
My 1982 Hatteras has welding cable for the battery connections - this was apparently standard for Hatteras of that era. After 30 years it is still fine but I will be inspecting it this summer with the intent of replacing it all.
It was standard from the early sixties for all boat manufactures to cut corners, to get a product out, that the customer was willing to pay for. Welding cable from that time only had a 60 or 70 C temp rating and was paper extruded. So go to the tables from the ABYC and see how much current that a 60 C cable can pass in an engine room, then size the 60c welding cable to the 105 C tinned boat cable. Also the cm of that era was SAE, not AWG, now factor in the cable size.

Now consider that the paper extrusion acts as a wick to draw moisture in to the cable on each heating cycle, but can't release the moisture....where does it go?

Lloyd

Now a blast from the past. I have rewired boats from the thirties, that were tinned copper that were sheathed in, asbestos, clad in phanolic, and then cased in lead.

Almost every major custom built boat/yacht built just after the wars, was tinned copper,

Almost every production boat/yacht built during the same time was bare copper.

Has anything changed?

???

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Old 12-05-2013, 23:10   #28
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Re: So who has tinned battery and other equally fat cables all tinned?

Tinned wire is not required in most governments. It's just added resistance to the elements. And you pay for the difference.
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Old 12-05-2013, 23:26   #29
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Re: So who has tinned battery and other equally fat cables all tinned?

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Originally Posted by FlyingCloud1937 View Post
If you spend the money on tinned lugs, and crimp, Why not tinned wire? A copper wire to a copper lug with a gas tight crimp would be a lower resistance connection? Tinned anything only adds resistance.



It was standard from the early sixties for all boat manufactures to cut corners, to get a product out, that the customer was willing to pay for. Welding cable from that time only had a 60 or 70 C temp rating and was paper extruded. So go to the tables from the ABYC and see how much current that a 60 C cable can pass in an engine room, then size the 60c welding cable to the 105 C tinned boat cable. Also the cm of that era was SAE, not AWG, now factor in the cable size.

Now consider that the paper extrusion acts as a wick to draw moisture in to the cable on each heating cycle, but can't release the moisture....where does it go?

Lloyd

Now a blast from the past. I have rewired boats from the thirties, that were tinned copper that were sheathed in, asbestos, clad in phanolic, and then cased in lead.

Almost every major custom built boat/yacht built just after the wars, was tinned copper,

Almost every production boat/yacht built during the same time was bare copper.

Has anything changed?

???

YA GET WHAT YA PAY FOR, if you're willing!
Don't be confused by my post.

I fully support using tinned wire and crimps.

Anything else would be a false economy, especially on a boat/yacht.

No matter it inside/outside, or bat cables.


Lloyd
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Old 12-05-2013, 23:50   #30
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Re: So who has tinned battery and other equally fat cables all tinned?

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Originally Posted by FlyingCloud1937 View Post

....

Welding cable from that time only had a 60 or 70 C temp rating and was paper extruded.
....
I'm not saying that statement is wrong but I will say it is very difficult to believe. Welding cable, which carries hundreds of ampere - and sometimes thousands - is typically is worked more towards the maximum load current carrying capacity for the x-sectioned area then regular power cables. Granted welding applications have a duty cycle component, however this can not always be relied upon to allow cables to sufficiently cool between load cycles. TBH I wasn't around in the 60's but my experience with old welding cable was that it was made of natural rubber which didn't melt at low temperatures but tended to rot with old age over time and was susceptible to UV light degradation, of which electric arcs emit lots of.

Re tinned wires. I totally rewired my little Vega about 12 months ago. I used a combination of tinned and non tinned wires. Personally, inside the cabin of a boat where it is protected from the weather I doubt it makes a lot of difference. For example, I have original wires in my boat that are moulded into the deck head during manufacture. These wires are around 10g size and untinned. After 40+ years they were still serviceable enough to be left in circuit. I also notice that no marine accessory I've ever seen has been supplied with tinned wires (other than soldered ends).
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