Smart Battery Monitor?

[Bleemus]

And while we are at it lets get the makers of Coca Cola on here to tell us what the recipe is for that stuff. Dying to know.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Bleemus

And while we are at it lets get the makers of Coca Cola on here to tell us what the recipe is for that stuff. Dying to know.

What does that have to do with anything?

[Hoosiersailor]

Originally Posted by Bleemus

And while we are at it lets get the makers of Coca Cola on here to tell us what the recipe is for that stuff. Dying to know.

I know where you are going with that but I don't think anyone is wanting the maker to divulge any proprietary technology or trade secrets. However they can possibly answer some questions and provide more details on how it works. Without some more information I have a hard time understanding. Sorry, I don't believe in the PFM concept.

[a64pilot]

I've had one for quite awhile, and it may or may not be PFM, but it in fact does seems to be quite accurate near as I can tell.
However I do believe that with some understanding you can monitor your bank with just a voltmeter, however that method does require you understand how the bank works, for instance you have to understand not to use the voltage reading while the microwave is running off of the inverter.
SmartGauge doesn't require you to understand anything more than to push a button

[sailorboy1]

It's all just BS to sell stuff. Accept that you batteries are only going to last 5-6 yes and the voodoo will be less confusing

Yes some will limp along longer on a battery bank with half capacity and say how long they got, but really everyone is just BSing themselves

[barnakiel]

Try a Victron one paired with their App. A guy in India can write you an App that will take Victron data and manipulate it so that you get exactly what you want and how you want it.

Possibly the same trick can be done with Mareton / Actisense combo.

Cheers,
b.

[daletournier]

Dockhead....I remember reading in a previous thread you mentioning another brand which was identical to the Balmar smart guage, what was that brand?

Cheers Dale.

Sent from my vivo Y35 using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

[a64pilot]

I believe pretty much anything if properly maintained will have a much longer life than something that is not, everything from engines to sails and winches will last longer, batteries too.
In fact there is a lot of data available that will allow you to determine the cycle life of a battery if it's short cycled or chronically undercharged.
I bet even though we may not know how to yet, the same will be found to be true of a LIFEPO bank as well.

[conachair]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

However I do believe that with some understanding you can monitor your bank with just a voltmeter, however that method does require you understand how the bank works, for instance you have to understand not to use the voltage reading while the microwave is running off of the inverter.

Agree, for the cost of a couple of beers you can have an accurate voltmeter connected directly to the battery terminals, every boat should have one though with solar/wind the surface charge can stay for hours to confuse things even with a fridge running .
Though an ammeter is very useful as well, and if fitting one then you might as well put a monitor in to count the amps overnight.
Imho, too much emphasis is put on having an exact readout of SOC, all the effort and money should be going on making sure the batteries back to fully charged as often as possible. Which is easy to tell with a voltmeter /ammeter.

[Littlechay]

OK.. I have Smartgauge. I use it as a voltmeter and don't take too much notice of the SOC. I would say that it is quite accurate but probably no more than a look-up table for voltage would be. I suspect that it just takes a bunch of measurements, smooths them and compares with some standard curves and a few cycles of historical data.

I have FLA batteries, have worked with them for years in my previous life as a telecom engineer and am comfortable with them.

I have a battery monitor designed for RC cars on my solar/wind system to log what goes in; more for interest in evaluating the performance of the panels than to measure battery performance (about 30 USD off Ebay).

I'll put in a couple more shunts at some stage to monitor my engine alternator v alternative energy numbers.

Lets face it. The time you need to know all the numbers is when you design the system. Once it is designed and installed all you need is the voltage and the curve for your battery and if you don't have a feel for these things an amp meter. With practice you will get to be better than a smartgauge very quickly.

All this stuff about 1000s of readings per second is BS. Put in an old world analogue meter, read it with your eyes and you have an infinite number of readings per second

However all that said. When clients ask me about battery monitors and I know they are not wire heads. I recommend the Smartgauge - it's close enough especially on discharge; in my experience. On charge its SOC reading is not accurate enough to decide when to cut the charger so monitor the voltage.

I've had one on my boat for four years and lived aboard cruising for three. Worked with Victron and Link etc. for many years and don't rate them in the real world of cruising sailing vessels.

[sailinglegend]

Originally Posted by Bleemus

And while we are at it lets get the makers of Coca Cola on here to tell us what the recipe is for that stuff. Dying to know.

Originally Posted by Dockhead

What does that have to do with anything?

It has everything to do with your entrenched position. Opinions on here are welcomed, but as a moderator you should no better than to ruin a thread but denying facts and links without providing your own links to support your misguided opinions.

Smartgauge is a UK product made by Merlin Equipment and is now at least 10 years old. Balmar now sell the product under license at a much higher price.

My Smartgauge is 7 years old and my Lifeline batteries have lasted 12 years as a liveaboard in the Med.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by daletournier

Dockhead....I remember reading in a previous thread you mentioning another brand which was identical to the Balmar smart guage, what was that brand?

Cheers Dale.

Yes. The Balmar SmartGauge is a relabeled Merlin SmartGauge, at twice the price Maybe 2.5x, now that the Pound has been devalued.

It's made in England and had been on the market for a while before Balmar started selling it. I bought mine from JG Tech.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by sailinglegend

It has everything to do with your entrenched position. Opinions on here are welcomed, but as a moderator you should no better than to ruin a thread but denying facts and links without providing your own links to support your misguided opinions.

Smartgauge is a UK product made by Merlin Equipment and is now at least 10 years old. Balmar now sell the product under license at a much higher price.

My Smartgauge is 7 years old and my Lifeline batteries have lasted 12 years as a liveaboard in the Med.

Sorry, but I am not denying facts -- I am asking for them, and getting nothing but Pure Magic and invitations to believe.

Just providing some link doesn't mean anything at all. The link you provided, like everything you have posted, tells us exactly zero about how this device actually works and even whether it works. This is a classic "brand fanatic" type of reasoning -- and this is just a culture clash between this mentality and the mentality of critically thinking, technically minded people who want real facts and real understanding.


I like my SmartGauge and I believe that it is superior to all other battery monitoring devices, and I have written so on many occasions. Like everything, it has some weaknesses, which I have also written about.


Would be nice if the maker would give some real information, intended for technically-minded cruisers, instead of this smoke and mirrors -- to help us understand the device better and use it more effectively.

[conachair]

Originally Posted by Littlechay

OK

However all that said. When clients ask me about battery monitors and I know they are not wire heads. I recommend the Smartgauge - it's close enough especially on discharge; in my experience. On charge its SOC reading is not accurate enough to decide when to cut the charger so monitor the voltage.

.

How does monitoring the voltage tell you when the batteries are charged without knowledge of the current going in?
The voltage will sit constant for hours at absorption before that batteries are charged?

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Littlechay

OK.. I have Smartgauge. I use it as a voltmeter and don't take too much notice of the SOC. I would say that it is quite accurate but probably no more than a look-up table for voltage would be. I suspect that it just takes a bunch of measurements, smooths them and compares with some standard curves and a few cycles of historical data.

I have FLA batteries, have worked with them for years in my previous life as a telecom engineer and am comfortable with them.

I have a battery monitor designed for RC cars on my solar/wind system to log what goes in; more for interest in evaluating the performance of the panels than to measure battery performance (about 30 USD off Ebay).

I'll put in a couple more shunts at some stage to monitor my engine alternator v alternative energy numbers.

Lets face it. The time you need to know all the numbers is when you design the system. Once it is designed and installed all you need is the voltage and the curve for your battery and if you don't have a feel for these things an amp meter. With practice you will get to be better than a smartgauge very quickly.

All this stuff about 1000s of readings per second is BS. Put in an old world analogue meter, read it with your eyes and you have an infinite number of readings per second

However all that said. When clients ask me about battery monitors and I know they are not wire heads. I recommend the Smartgauge - it's close enough especially on discharge; in my experience. On charge its SOC reading is not accurate enough to decide when to cut the charger so monitor the voltage.

I've had one on my boat for four years and lived aboard cruising for three. Worked with Victron and Link etc. for many years and don't rate them in the real world of cruising sailing vessels.

And this is the "wire-head" mentality -- much more congenial to my way of thinking, and that of many of the rest of us on here

I've written it before, but to maybe add something to one of your points --

I have done extensive testing of the SmartGauge SOC reading vs. simple light load voltage reading and lookup table vs. Specific Gravity measurements.

The results were that the SmartGauge SOC reading on discharge is EXTREMELY accurate -- never caught it out by more than 2%, and I guess that the Specific Gravity method is not more accurate than 2% itself, so I think based on my tests (which means with my specific bank, loads, etc. -- YMMV), the SmartGauge is PERFECTLY accurate during discharge.

Voltage reading and lookup table gave IDENTICAL results -- as you were guessing in your post.


Since the main thing you want to know about your batts with reasonable accuracy is when do you need to charge vs. can I go on a little longer -- the SmartGauge is very useful, and so I am always recommending the SmartGauge to my friends. Like you, I consider amp-counting battery monitors to be useless -- worse than useless, since they give a false sense of accurate knowledge, and err on the dangerous side. Mine -- correctly wired -- tells me almost nothing about SOC achieved during a generator run.

So if it's doing anything but measuring voltage against an internal lookup table, using some fuzzy logic to dampen voltage sags from loads -- I cannot perceive it, and there are no facts available, apparently.