Small Boat Electrical for Sail

[rgleason]

I will probably be installing a Balmar SG200 Battery Monitor, although it does not appear to have any controls, it does have good reliable monitering of all types of batteries including LiFePo4.

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ml#post2744982

[john61ct]

Get in on the Alpha test, or wait for release?

[rgleason]

Here is a chart from 123SmartBMS showing pretty clearly what the SoC is for various choices for values of Stop & Start Charging. For example, as shown

V-Max 3.55vpc (14.2v)
V-Min 2.80vpc (11.2v)

Manufacturer SoC %100 and the User SoC appears to be about 85% of that.

[john61ct]

The slopes of the shoulder curves change radically with current levels.

Also on the way up when charging, different from discharging.

Allowing for resting time at frequent increments would give a more "universal" version.

Another example

http://23.21.184.60/evtv-word-press/...hargecurve.jpg

http://23.21.184.60/evtv-word-press/...hargecurve.jpg

[rgleason]

Good big picture of LiFePo4 System (Victron)

AM Solar V4.2 Lithium Overview

Why can't I just wire it up like FLA or AGM?

Victron Equipment
V.E.Bus
V4 board
Load Disconnect ---BP100 (mosfets instead of relay)
Charge Disconnect CDsignal & freezing BP100 (sized according to load)
Charge Alternator CDsignal & freezing only connects with ignition on & delay.
Inverter/Charger (Inverter draws power & Charger provides power to same contacts. Condition sensing, has custom programming)
Use shunt based monitoring system for SOC. BMV-712 (better info & monitoring)
V4 boost feature, bypass starter battery to activate field of alt.
Separate Charge Source Relay and Load Relay

[rgleason]

Attached is a drawing for mounting a Delco SI28 on a 3YM30.
Is there enough room for air flow at the rear?

[rgleason]

A photo of the engine area.

[rgleason]

Is there enough air flow between the heat exchanger and the back of the unit? The SI28 could be pulled forward an additional amount with a spacer added between the main pulley and the J10 pulley.


Also a 1/2" adjustible idler pulley will be needed for the system water pump.
Note that the system water pump is separate from the alternator belt, so there are no issues regarding side loads.


I am going to get final measurements of one a Fleetpride today.

[rgleason]

The pdf for the Delco Remy SI 28 Alternator shows the output curves for 200a, 180a and 160a. The 160a #8600312 J180 Short Hinge mount version is the one I've shown in the drawing below. This #8600223 unit had been sold, at Fleetpride where I was going to measure in detail.

The output curve graph shows output of
- 80a at 1500 rpm (750 eng rpm approx) - 2.0 ratio, idle for 3YM30
- 120a at 2000 rpm (1000 eng rpm approx) - 2.0 ratio, just above idle for 3YM30

These lower outputs would not be affected by the Balmar ARS5 Belt Ratio setting of 'B-3' (85% of rated output) needed for longevity of the alternator.

However the ratings above are for cold operation, and must be adjusted for hot continuous operation, so my guess is we need to deduct another 15-20%.
- 68a at 1500rpm (750 eng rpm) idle
- 100a at 2000rpm (1000 eng rpm) fast idle
This is a little disappointing, but if fast idle actually outputs 100a, I would be happy with that.

(The 180a #860223 short J180 hinge mount version outputs 40a at 1500rpm and 100a at 2000 rpm so that is not better.)

When I look at Balmar's current output curve "See the Difference" the AT Series does better, and looking at an output curve for the 60 series 100a Alternator, it does 30a at 1500rpm and 64a at 2000rpm when cold.

Note that In the Balmar "See the Difference" Output Curve there is no tick mark showing for the "Alternator RPM" values, so that is a big unkown. Balmar's curves are not indicated as "hot" or "cold" so I assume this is cold and the values have to be adjusted for continuous operation.

Cooling
This alternator has dual cooling fans from the front and back and has a temperature rating of 125degF/257degF, rotation is clockwise and the polarity is negative (so I'd have to change that to use it with the Balmar External Regulator).

The photos attached show that the back of the alternator has a plastic cowl with openings for about 290 degrees with about 70 degrees blanked out for airflow. Maybe the regulator is there. The blank area occurs opposite where part of the Yanmar heat exchanger is located.

I am also including a two photos of an interesting Valeo 528 alternator with a cowl that uses fresh air makeup fans in a BMW. I understand that Yanmar is now including Valeo alternators with serpentine belt kits with marine engines. Balmar also has an very nice conversion kit to use the MC-614 with these alternators (which have internal regulation).


I think such a cowl would help with heat, also relocating the rectifiers which I can see in the rear grille would help, but with the Yanmar Heat Exchanger right near, the plastic cowl might melt. I think I need more space back there, so to pull the alternator forward, I will have to reduce the engine sheave to 5 3/4" dia, because of the water pump">raw water pump cover, I think.

[rgleason]

If I decide not to use Trojan Trilliam LiFePo4 90ah batteries with a built in BMS and Charge Gage, it is likely I will use the Orion Jr. BMS with Winston Batteries and this VSR Alternator Regulator integration becomes important.

Smart Alternator Regulator › On google groups

Integrating VSR with Orion Jr BMS

[john61ct]

Yes, Al's willingness to provide guidance makes that combo pretty compelling.

But certainly not for a non-technical owner wanting OTS reliability far from civilization.

Most would be very wary of depending on any software they need to pay attention to.

But an ideal solution for geeks who love tinkering with tech for fun.

[rgleason]

The alternator was sold before I could measure it, but finally, here is a dimension diagram for the Delco 28SI which shows depth. Now I can figure out if this alternator will work.

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ml#post3024384


Also under Alternator Size with LifePo there is some information about

Marinehowto has an excellent sale for a well built alternator that will fit our 3YM30
CMI-90-ERH - 90A Hitachi Replacement Externally Regulated Alternator $299

Originally Posted by rgleason

Is there enough air flow between the heat exchanger and the back of the unit? The SI28 could be pulled forward an additional amount with a spacer added between the main pulley and the J10 pulley.

Also a 1/2" adjustible idler pulley will be needed for the system water pump.
Note that the system water pump is separate from the alternator belt, so there are no issues regarding side loads.

I am going to get final measurements of one a Fleetpride today.

[rgleason]

EVM1024's Instructive Serpentine Installation on a Perkins 4.236 titled Who makes the TAD and SW Diesel Serpintine pulleys?

New Parts from S&W Diesel Willmington CA

Crank Pulley - Face mounted on existing engine crank pullley.
Pump Pulley - Also has a V belt behind it.
Alternator Pulley - From his Alt repair shop.

He built a 3/4" alternator spacer to move the entire alternator forward 3/4" for the new face mounted crank pulley.

This is the same approach I am going to take I think. Face mount the new crankshaft pulley on the existing crankshaft pulley with 4 bolts utilizing the existing threaded bolt holes in the existing pulley.

I have some confirmation that the Altmount 48-AM-69 J10 5.24" diameter Pulley (possibly made by the same people as the S&W pulleys) when turned around will serve the purpose. I am going to look into possibly having a slightly larger diameter one made.

That leaves finding a suitable small diameter J10 pulley that fits on the Delco Remy 28SI shaft which is 22mm. Marinehowto sells a pulley that will fit, but it is 2.5" in diameter, which reduces the pulley ratio consequently the rpm of the alternator. I am trying to get closer to a pulley ratio of 3. Search on the internet is not bringing up good sources so I think I'll try automotive parts supply stores like Napa.


Perhaps some one knows?

[john61ct]

I've seen reports of good results getting a local machine shop to make exactly what you want, if you can't find it ready made.

Sometimes less expensive too.

[rgleason]

I did find a source for the 22mm pulley on the Delco Remy 28SI.

B& B manufacturing Here is a 22mm shaft j10 pulley with a 2" diameter.


Angel Stock wrote back.

Good Morning – Our stock item is 10J200JA which you could use a JAx22 bushing. I have 2 pulleys in stock but the bushings are currently on backorder until April. https://www.bbman.com/catalog/product/10J200JA

If you feel this is not the correct item, send in the drawing & I will pass to Engineering to quote. Made to order items lead time is currently 10 weeks.

Also EVM1024 has a good thread Converting Delco 28SI to External Regulation