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Old 06-06-2018, 13:38   #1
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Small air-cooled gen with electric choke only starts with starter spray. Remidies?

Hi,

one more question, they never seem to stop

We have a 2600fme genset.
We cleaned the carb, put new spark plugs and rewired the circuit board properly (which was a rusty pile of crap).
It's running better than before by now, but only starts with starter spray.

I'd want to adjust the choke in a way that it is fully closed (max fuel, little air) when starting, in the hope it's not needing the fluid then.
Unfortunately it has only an electric automatic choke and not a manual one which would be easier to adjust (see pictures).

Anyone has an idea what the best way to adjust this?

See pictures, I put numbers on the screws which could be adjusted.
Guess adjusting the idle speed will not help.

Thanks for some advice.

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Old 06-06-2018, 14:35   #2
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Re: Small air-cooled gen with electric choke only starts with starter spray. Remidies

I'm confused by the choke I see the connection to the vacuum actuator but usually there is also a a thermal device that is inline with the vacuum. When you start it do you see that actuator move? and what position is the choke butterfly in at rest and when the actuator moves.
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Old 06-06-2018, 15:32   #3
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Small air-cooled gen with electric choke only starts with starter spray. Remidies?

I have never seen a vacuum actuated choke myself.
Iíd be tempted to think it was the throttle valve.
That black thing you have marked as # 3 is the throttle valve?
To check to make sure choking it would make it start, try taking off the air filter and holding your hand over the carb intake, this of course chokes it, or just manually flip the lever.
It may need starting fluid cause itís compression is weak.
Vacuum usually pulls the choke off after the engine starts, and something else closes it, spring etc?
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Old 07-06-2018, 00:37   #4
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Re: Small air-cooled gen with electric choke only starts with starter spray. Remidies

Hi guys.

Thanks so far.

Unfortunately I have no documentation and the dealer is less than helpful to put li lightly.

Few things I did yesterday when it was running.

A) moving the wire between 1and4 considerably to the right without disconnecting it reduces the RPM considerably.
There is a spring under the white lever 4.

B) 3 seems to be the electric choke actuator. It clearly moves, and revs up the RPM when the generator runs and I increase the load on it.

C) When I move the black piece under the electric actuator to the right, the engine revs up.

D) Not sure what the black screw 4 does.

I thought that 3 is the electric choke. Or is it an electric throttle control? Moving it by hand towards the right increases RPM.
The genset has an eco mode, turning down the RPM at lower current draw.

Maybe one of you has some more ideas based on this?

Thanks Franziska
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Old 07-06-2018, 07:46   #5
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Re: Small air-cooled gen with electric choke only starts with starter spray. Remidies

Based on the position on the carb I would say the little motor is controlling the throttle and the vacuum is tied to the choke. I would confirm where the choke butterfly is on the choke in different positions. Based on what I see it looks like a spring closes the choke and then the vacuum opens it up (which would be how it works) but usually the spring that closes the choke is sensitive to heat either bimetal or having an electrical actuation. In theory you could have a cheap choke by having the choke close by default by a spring then have the vacuum open it up as soon as it's there but this would not be ideal in cold weather. It looks like they have a check valve on the vacuum line as well so the choke will not immediately close after shutting down. Honestly if it's proving to be trouble some you should be able to make it into a manual choke simply enough. #2 looks like an idle screw you could try and richen the mixture a little by turning counter clockwise which may help a little but won't get at the root problem.

I say the white lever arm is tho choke because the choke butterfly/plate need to be placed at the point air enters the carb in order to create the additional draw of fuel. see this diagram.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Choke_...Carburetor.svg
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Old 07-06-2018, 08:18   #6
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Re: Small air-cooled gen with electric choke only starts with starter spray. Remidies

I feel your pain. I have a couple of engines that absolutely, positively will not start on the first pull of the starter, nor the 2nd, third, etc. I, too, went through all the b.s. trying to get them to work properly but no joy. I came to the realization that starting fluid is cheaper and easier than effing with them and huffing and puffing or replacing them.
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Old 07-06-2018, 08:27   #7
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Re: Small air-cooled gen with electric choke only starts with starter spray. Remidies

"Ether" it starts or it doesn't.
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Old 07-06-2018, 08:27   #8
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Small air-cooled gen with electric choke only starts with starter spray. Remidies?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Colin A View Post
Based on the position on the carb I would say the little motor is controlling the throttle and the vacuum is tied to the choke. I would confirm where the choke butterfly is on the choke in different positions. Based on what I see it looks like a spring closes the choke and then the vacuum opens it up (which would be how it works) but usually the spring that closes the choke is sensitive to heat either bimetal or having an electrical actuation. In theory you could have a cheap choke by having the choke close by default by a spring then have the vacuum open it up as soon as it's there but this would not be ideal in cold weather. It looks like they have a check valve on the vacuum line as well so the choke will not immediately close after shutting down. Honestly if it's proving to be trouble some you should be able to make it into a manual choke simply enough. #2 looks like an idle screw you could try and richen the mixture a little by turning counter clockwise which may help a little but won't get at the root problem.

I say the white lever arm is tho choke because the choke butterfly/plate need to be placed at the point air enters the carb in order to create the additional draw of fuel. see this diagram.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Choke_...Carburetor.svg


I agree with everything here.
Iíd add that I would be tempted to run a wire outside of the cover and manually operate the choke, disconnect all that automatic vacuum nonsense. Just plug the hose you do, donít leave a vacuum leak
My little Hondaís choke is purely manual, I see no need for an automatic choke myself, itís an unnecessary complication
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Old 07-06-2018, 08:30   #9
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Small air-cooled gen with electric choke only starts with starter spray. Remidies?

If you have ether on a boat, store it like propane, I think itís at least as explosive and is it heavier than air?

Now I think about it since the ban of CFCís isnít propane awfully common as spray can propellant?
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Old 07-06-2018, 10:23   #10
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Re: Small air-cooled gen with electric choke only starts with starter spray. Remidies

It would be helpful to run a compression check. With these little gas generators they are like a squirrel running at high speed on a wheel and never getting off. Hence the almost daily requirement for oil changes. Most people will not keep up with the oil change schedule and the cylinders/rings get worn out and the compression suffers and makes for hard starting.
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Old 07-06-2018, 10:27   #11
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Re: Small air-cooled gen with electric choke only starts with starter spray. Remidies

Continually having to use starter fluid works for a while but the starter fuel cleans off the residual oil on the cylinder wall accelerating the startup cylinder/ring wear. On Diesels we use WD 40 when working on them like starting fluid. Need to use one with the regular spray tip not the little red hose because it needs to be more highly atomized not a stream spray. Never tried with a gass engine maybe somewone can chime in about this.
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Old 07-06-2018, 11:51   #12
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Small air-cooled gen with electric choke only starts with starter spray. Remidies?

Starting fluid if used properly wonít hurt it.
For many years Farm Diesels came from the factory with a solenoid and a bracket that you mounted the ether can on, push a button and ether was sprayed into the intake tract.
You want just a tiny amount, and want vapor, not liquid, and only just enough to help initiate fuel burn, not so much to blow the head off, which as silly as it sounds is possible.

With the farm Diesels you pushed the button for just a second after the starter was already turning over, and you may have to push it a few times until itís running smooth. Big motor, tiny amount of ether.
Tiny motor like this, really tiny amount of ether
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Old 07-06-2018, 12:26   #13
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Re: Small air-cooled gen with electric choke only starts with starter spray. Remidies

http://kiporpowerequipment.com/wp-co...ice-Manual.pdf

There's one of their shop manuals, and with any luck yours will be on the same general web site, or be similar enough to make some use of it. If not, perhaps they can direct you to a proper service manual, so you can make sure all the right bits are set up the right way.
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Old 07-06-2018, 14:09   #14
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Re: Small air-cooled gen with electric choke only starts with starter spray. Remidies

Here is a forum that may help:

https://www.powerforen.de/foren/alle...generator.184/

I found it by googling the name/model of your generator. One of the hits appeared to be a dealer, and it was on the site as leading to a forum somehow (my German is very poor as well as inadequate) related to trouble starting the generator.
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Old 07-06-2018, 14:20   #15
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Re: Small air-cooled gen with electric choke only starts with starter spray. Remidies

Quote:
Originally Posted by Franziska View Post
Anyone has an idea what the best way to adjust this?

See pictures, I put numbers on the screws which could be adjusted.
Guess adjusting the idle speed will not help.

Thanks for some advice.

Franziska

#1 and #4 are your choke adjustment screws, use either, they are interchangeable.


Confirm that the vacuum motor (to the left of #1) is operating properly. It should pull the wire towards itself after the motor starts.


You will want to adjust #1 and #4 such that the choke is completely closed when the engine is not running, and completely open when it is running. From the photo, it already appears to be adjusted properly.


There can be many other causes of engines failing to start without ether. Another likely cause is that the carburetor is still not completely clean even though you went through it. It is easy to miss something. For a full cleaning the carb has to be completely disassembled and soaked in solvent. If you did anything less than that you probably missed some debris.


A failing ignition system can also cause starting problems.
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