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Old 20-08-2013, 07:24   #121
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Re: Size of Battery Charger

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All my reading on the various sites has me convinced that no battery will last more than 3 years on a sailboat. ( nearly always blamed on improper charging )
.
That has not been our experience with T-105's. We easily get 5 years before beginning to notice capacity loss. I'm sure we are loosing capacity earlier, but we only start to notice it after 5 years.

Mark
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Old 20-08-2013, 07:45   #122
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Re: Size of Battery Charger

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In conclusion seems to me the best battery to buy and best suited for World cruising would be the 6v wet cell Trojan ( T-105 ) RELIABLE AND AVAILABLE ALL OVER.
Yes indeed, But consider that cheaper 100AH 12V batteries may also do what you want especially if you accept that you only may get 2-3 years out of them at most.

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Old 20-08-2013, 07:46   #123
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Re: Size of Battery Charger

Lifeline batteries have a 5 year warranty contingent upon proper charging. What is not clear is the following statement in their battery charging guidelines:

"For maximum battery life, a battery must be recharged to 100% capacity. Recharging to less than 100% may result in premature battery failure. Lifeline batteries are not covered under warranty if they are not recharged properly. For more information, please refer to our warranty policy."

It doesn't say "Please refer to the conditioning/equalization section..." after that, which leads me to believe that some lawyer wrote the charging rules.

Does this mean that they require that the battery be charged to 100% at every discharge or you are not covered under warranty? How do you prove the battery was charged correctly? How do they disprove it?
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Old 20-08-2013, 07:55   #124
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Re: Size of Battery Charger

I've wondered that myself. It sounds like a real "weasel clause" if you ask me. That said, my understanding is that Lifeline is a stand-up company who stand behind their products.
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Old 20-08-2013, 08:11   #125
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Re: Size of Battery Charger

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Originally Posted by zboss View Post
Lifeline batteries have a 5 year warranty contingent upon proper charging. What is not clear is the following statement in their battery charging guidelines:

"For maximum battery life, a battery must be recharged to 100% capacity. Recharging to less than 100% may result in premature battery failure. Lifeline batteries are not covered under warranty if they are not recharged properly. For more information, please refer to our warranty policy."

It doesn't say "Please refer to the conditioning/equalization section..." after that, which leads me to believe that some lawyer wrote the charging rules.

Does this mean that they require that the battery be charged to 100% at every discharge or you are not covered under warranty? How do you prove the battery was charged correctly? How do they disprove it?
The Lifeline warranty is meaningless; even an AGM battery cannot be charged to 100% unless the Coulometric Charging Efficiency is 100%; which is physically impossible.
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Old 20-08-2013, 08:26   #126
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Re: Size of Battery Charger

In 10 years these conversations will be irrelevant. We will have solar panels that charge at 60% efficiency and a group 27 size battery that can hold 2000 amp hours and be charged as fast as you can pump current into it.

If my wife and I make it through the 5 year battery warranty on the boat, that in itself will be a miracle.
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Old 20-08-2013, 09:17   #127
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Re: Size of Battery Charger

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In 10 years these conversations will be irrelevant. We will have solar panels that charge at 60% efficiency and a group 27 size battery that can hold 2000 amp hours and be charged as fast as you can pump current into it.

If my wife and I make it through the 5 year battery warranty on the boat, that in itself will be a miracle.
I admire your optimism!!! These things may exist as you predict, but will we be able to afford them?
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Old 20-08-2013, 15:33   #128
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Re: Size of Battery Charger

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3 ) I am very close to buying five ( 5 ) Oddsey PC - 1800 FT ( AGM'S ) for my house bank battery. And yes I have learned that one bank is better than 2.
I am buying Odysset mainly because they will fit in my space ( outside the engine room ) Gulfstar 50.

Have emailed Odyssey requesting direct feed back for the Battery Charger that I need to buy and their detailed charging procedure that I would follow.
If I do not receive a clear reply from Odyssey, then I will not buy their battery.

I had useful phone conversations with these guys about both batteries and chargers when we started changing over to AGMs: Home

Those 1800 batteries looked interesting at the time, but the 22" height dimension didn't work for us.

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Old 20-08-2013, 20:25   #129
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Re: Size of Battery Charger

I've been reading a lot about batteries here in the last week or so. Let me see if I now have the AGM story straight:

The big reason why most people want them is because of the high acceptance rate.

This high acceptance rate will beat the snot out of an ordinary alternator, which is why you need to spend a lot of money on a better quality alternator.

AGMs need to be charged to 100% most every time that they have been used, or else they suffer damage, much worse than a flooded battery would.

Charging an AGM to 100% takes a long time.

So then, what is the big advantage of the high acceptance rate? You get to beat the snot out of your charging system for the fun of it & still take forever to charge back up to 100%? I'm having a hard time seeing the up side in all that. I'm hoping that I missed something.
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Old 20-08-2013, 20:37   #130
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Re: Size of Battery Charger

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Originally Posted by pbiJim View Post
I've been reading a lot about batteries here in the last week or so. Let me see if I now have the AGM story straight:

The big reason why most people want them is because of the high acceptance rate.

This high acceptance rate will beat the snot out of an ordinary alternator, which is why you need to spend a lot of money on a better quality alternator.

AGMs need to be charged to 100% most every time that they have been used, or else they suffer damage, much worse than a flooded battery would.

Charging an AGM to 100% takes a long time.

So then, what is the big advantage of the high acceptance rate? You get to beat the snot out of your charging system for the fun of it & still take forever to charge back up to 100%? I'm having a hard time seeing the up side in all that. I'm hoping that I missed something.
No, I think you have the basic details pretty straight. Maybe a phrased a little harshly but essentially correct as I understand it. Oh and don't forget they cost a lot more as well.

You could probably get pretty good life out of AGMs if you spend frequent days at the dock and can plug in or if you have lots of wind and/or solar or you run a genny most of the day. Otherwise, for off the grid cruising, until they get the LiFePo battery technology more idiot proof and less demanding on the user I'll stick with FLA batteries.
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Old 20-08-2013, 22:32   #131
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Re: Size of Battery Charger

Problem is trying to find the proper charging procedure. My origional idea was to have 3 battery banks. 1 for the diesel engine dedicated starting.
2 house bank batteries. One operating and 1 fully charged on standby. ( 80% charged by the battery charger / engine alternator, with the last 20% from a solar panel array with voltage regulation.
With 2 house banks I figured you could discharge one to 50% and then switch over to the fully charged standby. And immediately recharge the other one to 80% say with the Honda 2000i and a matched battery charger ( rated at 70amps ).
Then I learned one battery bank is better than 2, which made sense.
I selected the Odyssey PC - 1800 FT and selected 5 of these for my one housebank.
What size battery charger did I need and what was the detailed charging procedure to be followed ( to meet the warranty 3 year requirements )
Was informed that I should not have more than 4 of these in my house bank and that a ( 80amp x 4 ) battery charger was required.
I don't understand that. Where do you find a 12 volt 320 amp battery charger.
Sorry this is so long winded, but as a future World Cruiser this is a serious subject and needs clarification. I hope one of you experienced experts will reply and tell me the best set up for my sailboat. I need 800 ah house bank and seperate engine battery. I also have a Nothernlights diesel gen set.
Thany you for your support.

Jeff
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Old 20-08-2013, 23:24   #132
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Re: Size of Battery Charger

Looks like if I buy 4 of these PC-1800 Odyssey batteries they would need to be in 2 house banks each rated at 400AH.
Battery Charger and Alternator rated at 160 AMPS configured for the required voltage out put.
Each bank charged to 80% with the Battery charger or with the diesel gen. set. Last 20% would be from Wind turbine or Solar with voltage regulator.
What is wrong with this arrangement ? Still takes a long time to charge.

Suggestions / recommendations please
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Old 21-08-2013, 06:33   #133
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Re: Size of Battery Charger

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Then I learned one battery bank is better than 2, which made sense.
Where did you learn that? I haven't been sold on that idea yet. I'm still looking for more information.

Thanks,
Jim
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Old 21-08-2013, 07:42   #134
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Re: Size of Battery Charger

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Where did you learn that? I haven't been sold on that idea yet. I'm still looking for more information.

Thanks,
Jim
Nigel Calder for one. I believe Maine Sail and btrayfors, both experts in the field also recommend a single house bank.

And of course there's me as well.
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Old 21-08-2013, 08:19   #135
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Add one more vote....

One bank is better than two...

Scott
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