Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 16-08-2013, 13:24   #76
Registered User
 
zboss's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: On a boat
Boat: Cabo Rico 38
Posts: 3,426
Re: Size of Battery Charger

Quote:
Originally Posted by sailinglegend View Post
May I direct you to the Lifeline AGM site and suggest you download their 37 page AGM manual.

http://www.lifelinebatteries.com/manual.pdf
I really don't want to read a 37 page manual to learn how to charge my batteries.
__________________

__________________
zboss is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-08-2013, 13:33   #77
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: On board in Alanya, Turkey
Boat: Hunter Legend 420 Passage
Posts: 626
Re: Size of Battery Charger

Quote:
Originally Posted by zboss View Post
I really don't want to read a 37 page manual to learn how to charge my batteries.
What a strange response after your original post where you talk about Lifeline AGMs, and your subsequent posts where you clearly need to read a lot more about charging your batteries. There are a lot of people here trying to help answer your questions - I sometimes wonder why we bother.
__________________

__________________
sailinglegend is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 16-08-2013, 13:35   #78
Nearly an old salt
 
goboatingnow's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 13,649
Images: 3
Re: Size of Battery Charger

Quote:
Originally Posted by sailinglegend View Post
Dave, you are looking at a Trojan site - they say "generally" and then offer their thoughts - based on their batteries. Trojan are good, but look deeper into their AGM range.Their "OverDrive" batteries are described by them as true Deep Cycle.

You guys out there who continually knock AGMs without knowing the facts need to get out a bit more. May I direct you to the Lifeline AGM site and suggest you download their 37 page AGM manual.

http://www.lifelinebatteries.com/manual.pdf

Remember - NOT ALL AGMs are the same. Some are designed as starter bats, some as dual purpose, some as Telecom and Solar standby bats, and others like Lifeline are designed for long life and are robust enough for repeatedly falling off 3 metres waves.

We have been permanently living aboard our 42ft Hunter Legend for the last 7 years and our AGMs are now in their 10th year.
I have a set of 6 flooded LAs, that will be 12 years this year, and are quite heavily used. So what really good batteries last longer, but AGM is a waste of money on a typical boat , spend the money on good flooded LAs.
__________________
Check out my new blog on smart boat technology, networking and gadgets for the connected sailor! - http://smartboats.tumblr.com
goboatingnow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-08-2013, 15:23   #79
Registered User
 
zboss's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: On a boat
Boat: Cabo Rico 38
Posts: 3,426
Re: Size of Battery Charger

Quote:
Originally Posted by sailinglegend View Post
What a strange response after your original post where you talk about Lifeline AGMs, and your subsequent posts where you clearly need to read a lot more about charging your batteries. There are a lot of people here trying to help answer your questions - I sometimes wonder why we bother.
Don't take it personally. I just don't think it should take 37 pages to learn how to charge a battery. A real benefit would be battery instructions that can sum up how to charge in 1 page.

Are Trojans available world-wide?
__________________
zboss is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-08-2013, 15:29   #80
Nearly an old salt
 
goboatingnow's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 13,649
Images: 3
Re: Size of Battery Charger

Quote:
Originally Posted by zboss View Post
Don't take it personally. I just don't think it should take 37 pages to learn how to charge a battery. A real benefit would be battery instructions that can sum up how to charge in 1 page.

Are Trojans available world-wide?
more or less yes. but hard to find, there are several good makes of battery

dave
__________________
Check out my new blog on smart boat technology, networking and gadgets for the connected sailor! - http://smartboats.tumblr.com
goboatingnow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-08-2013, 05:13   #81
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Israel
Boat: Fountaine Pajot Lavezzi 40
Posts: 23
Re: Size of Battery Charger

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cpt Pat View Post
An excellent point! My solar array cost $1,000 and is just enough to replenish my AGM batteries. If I substituted flooded cells, I'd have to spend $1,300 to accomplish the same task.
Why is that, Pat? Please elaborate.
__________________
A Monolog is one person speaking to himself; a Dialog is two people speaking to themseves...
Patacha is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-08-2013, 05:24   #82
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Israel
Boat: Fountaine Pajot Lavezzi 40
Posts: 23
Re: Size of Battery Charger

Quote:
Originally Posted by zboss View Post
I really don't want to read a 37 page manual to learn how to charge my batteries.
In a Nutshell, Z...

- Bulk Stage: Charger provides it's max A untill battery voltage, typically 14.5-14.8V (depends on battery type). At the end of this stage, batteries are 80-80% full (SOC).

- Absorption Stage: Voltage remains constant as per the above and current drops gradually untill current is 2-5% of the max A at the Bulk charge (also limited by time; 4-8 hrs/).

- Float: voltage drops and held at 13.2-13.4V

Well, it tured out to be a Coconut shell...
__________________
A Monolog is one person speaking to himself; a Dialog is two people speaking to themseves...
Patacha is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-08-2013, 11:29   #83
Registered User
 
Cpt Pat's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2012
Boat: Pearson Ariel, 26 feet
Posts: 158
Re: Size of Battery Charger

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patacha View Post
Why is that, Pat? Please elaborate.
Because the charge efficiency of AGMs is greater than flooded batteries. That's because - digging deep into the physics of batteries - AGMs have a lower Peukert exponent. Peuket's law applies to both discharging and charging lead acid batteries.

A larger percentage of recharge energy returned to a flooded battery is converted to heat, and so, a larger solar array is needed to recharge flooded batteries of the same capacity. Given the costs of both money and space for a solar array, the savings in using AGMs is substantial for those of us who don't have or don't want to use engine-driven alternators. You also save fuel if you do run the engine to recharge AGMs, but the offset isn't as obvious.

I recommend reading this very excellent document for a detailed description of all the other variables: Battery Types: Flooded versus AGM and Gel.
__________________
Cpt Pat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-08-2013, 12:06   #84
֍֎֍֎֍֎֍֎֍֎

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 13,042
Re: Size of Battery Charger

I'd have to agree with zboss about not wanting to read 37 pages.

37 pages to explain the technology and concepts and options, maybe, sure.

37 pages to say "OK, this is how to charge these puppies." NO WAY IN HELL.

If you can't put the "operating instructions" in a single page bullet list that can be read and followed in under five minutes, there's something seriously wrong, and a team of dog catchers needs to be sent to the plant to round up the stray engineers and put them back in the lab.

Charge at this rate. Operate at these temperatures. Maybe even, "caution, do not drill holes in the batteries to secure them to the bulkhead." But 37 pages? That's about 36-1/2 too many for an operating guide.
__________________
hellosailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-08-2013, 12:43   #85
Registered User
 
Cpt Pat's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2012
Boat: Pearson Ariel, 26 feet
Posts: 158
Re: Size of Battery Charger

Quote:
Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post
I'd have to agree with zboss about not wanting to read 37 pages.

37 pages to explain the technology and concepts and options, maybe, sure.

37 pages to say "OK, this is how to charge these puppies." NO WAY IN HELL.

If you can't put the "operating instructions" in a single page bullet list that can be read and followed in under five minutes, there's something seriously wrong, and a team of dog catchers needs to be sent to the plant to round up the stray engineers and put them back in the lab.

Charge at this rate. Operate at these temperatures. Maybe even, "caution, do not drill holes in the batteries to secure them to the bulkhead." But 37 pages? That's about 36-1/2 too many for an operating guide.
I see it as a time versus money thing. Time reading and researching versus money spent on more stuff than I needed to buy because I over-specified/burnt out/broke the stuff I bought. I have more time than money, but I appreciate that those of a more affluent class do a lot to support our economy.

Sometimes I do wish I was rich enough to afford cheap batteries.
__________________
Cpt Pat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-08-2013, 13:00   #86
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Usually South Florida these days
Posts: 825
Re: Size of Battery Charger

Quote:
Originally Posted by zboss View Post
I just don't think it should take 37 pages to learn how to charge a battery. A real benefit would be battery instructions that can sum up how to charge in 1 page.
Page #19

http://www.lifelinebatteries.com/manual.pdf


The general spec's on that battery look pretty good to me. I'm impressed that it can take a max bulk charge rate of 250% of the ah rating. http://www.lifelinebatteries.com/marineflyer.php?id=30
__________________
pbiJim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-08-2013, 13:08   #87
Registered User
 
Stu Jackson's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Cowichan Bay, BC (Maple Bay Marina)
Posts: 6,387
Re: Size of Battery Charger

37 pages isn't much if he wants to learn. If he doesn't and wants charging for dummies, then he might, just might make a catastrophic mistake and burn up his batteries.

Maybe he'd like to learn about how batteries work:

Ample Power Company Home Page

But then he'd have to download the Ample Power Primer and read it. It's more than one page.

Ooops, sorry.

Dave gave the simple answer quite a number of times. Unless you can guarantee charging back to 100% (however you choose to do it) then AGMs could fail on you without warning. I'd give a link, but would it be read?

2 hours vs 3 hours to fully recharge a bank based on the size of a 40A vs 60A charger? Nah. If you read most battery literature, you will need all night to FULLY recharge a bank, even if you had a zillion amp charger. It's called battery acceptance.

Good luck, keep learnin'...
__________________
Stu Jackson
Catalina 34 #224 (1986) C34IA Secretary
Cowichan Bay, BC, (Maple Bay Marina) SR/FK, M25, Rocna 10 (22#) (NZ model)
Stu Jackson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-08-2013, 13:16   #88
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Usually South Florida these days
Posts: 825
Re: Size of Battery Charger

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stu Jackson View Post
Unless you can guarantee charging back to 100% (however you choose to do it) then AGMs could fail on you without warning. I'd give a link, but would it be read?
I would like to read it.
Please post the link.

Thanks,
Jim
__________________
pbiJim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-08-2013, 13:24   #89
Registered User
 
Stu Jackson's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Cowichan Bay, BC (Maple Bay Marina)
Posts: 6,387
Re: Size of Battery Charger

Sure, and one's on acceptance, too

AGM Battery Issues (from Maine Sail)
AGM Batteries - Making The Choice - SailboatOwners.com

AGM Battery Issues and the Blue Seas Dual Circuit Switch (from Maine Sail) "DARN AGM Batteries"
Darn AGM Batteries - SailboatOwners.com

Battery Acceptance by Stu Battery Acceptance

Battery Acceptance (a very good Maine Sail presentation and further discussions) Battery Acceptance Observations - SailboatOwners.com

Happy reading.
__________________
Stu Jackson
Catalina 34 #224 (1986) C34IA Secretary
Cowichan Bay, BC, (Maple Bay Marina) SR/FK, M25, Rocna 10 (22#) (NZ model)
Stu Jackson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-08-2013, 13:35   #90
Registered User
 
ranger42c's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Maryland, USA
Boat: 42' Sportfish
Posts: 2,984
Re: Size of Battery Charger

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stu Jackson View Post

2 hours vs 3 hours to fully recharge a bank based on the size of a 40A vs 60A charger? Nah. If you read most battery literature, you will need all night to FULLY recharge a bank, even if you had a zillion amp charger. It's called battery acceptance.

Good luck, keep learnin'...

Wasn't me complaining about the 37 pages; I like to read stuff like that.

I did mention the extra hour for 40 vs 60 amp charger. That was just a guess, and I think I said 3 vs 4... but in any case, that's just based on what my gauges say after a 4 hour charge now (from about 30% depletion) with our current 40-amp charger.. Full.

I understand the acceptance part; I'm suspecting my normal (i.e., quick check) gauge in the saloon (analog, not the multi-meter) isn't sufficiently accurate to for me to distinguish the continuously-shrinking? remaining charging activity.

-Chris
__________________

__________________
Selby Bay, South River, Chesapeake Bay, USA.
ranger42c is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
battery, charger, size

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 05:46.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.