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Old 28-10-2010, 16:35   #16
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As I said in the previous post, that was just a beginning to the page to show how to plan a DC system. Here is a link to the finished (?? I hope) page New Boatbuilders Home Page - Electrical System Planning I hope this helps.

It was written aimed at beginning boat builders who probably know a lot about how to make fiberglass composites or cold molded wood hulls, but haven't a clue about electrical systems. Plus that I had my wife proof read it, mainly to correct my horrible grammar, but also to see if a layman could understand it. Her electrical knowledge is confiined to changing lightbulbs and plugging things into the socket. But she is a superb writer and critic. (LOL)

Again, please comment on any errors or omissions and please be kind.
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Old 28-10-2010, 18:07   #17
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Wiring Schematic

So I have drawn up a schematic of how I think it might go. Not sure on where to put my fuses so any feedback would be appreciated.

Regards
Damien
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Old 28-10-2010, 18:41   #18
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The rules are:
The fuse or circuit breaker must be within seven inches (17.8 cm) of the source of power.
Exceptions:
Exception 1. If it is physically impractical to put the fuse or circuit breaker within seven inches of the source of the power it can be up to 40 inches (101.6 cm) away, if the wire is contained for it's entire length between the source of power and the circuit breaker, in a sheath or an enclosure.

So you should have a fuse block or circuit breakers on the positive side between the batteries and the buss bars. You should also have a battery switch at the output of the batteries before the fuses.

It looks good so far.
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Old 28-10-2010, 23:13   #19
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I agree with Ike - Looking pretty good so far.

- Need a main battery switch for sure
- You might consider switching the bus services around - i.e. I have a switch titled "instruments." It powers the bus driving instruments, gps and autopilot.
- I have a separate switch for "interior" - this powers the bus that has the lights, 800w inverter and the cigarette lighter plug.
- A third switch could be "services" - powering the water pump and other stuff you might add.
- a six panel switch leaves you 3 switches for nav, anchor and spreader lights

Splices - It appears that you intend 3 splices - the windgen to the negative cable and the positive and negative supply to bus 2. Others may disagree but I am ok with "chaining" the buses and using the terminal lug on bus one to secure the bus 2 supply. By this I mean two lugs on one post.

Battery Wiring - Your batteries are correctly wired in parallel but it would be better to have the positive supply to the bus come from bat one and the negative attached to battery 2. This is said to more equally consume and charge from the battery bank. Don't get confused - this does not create a series circuit.
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Old 29-10-2010, 00:18   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ike View Post
As I said in the previous post, that was just a beginning to the page to show how to plan a DC system. Here is a link to the finished (?? I hope) page New Boatbuilders Home Page - Electrical System Planning I hope this helps.

It was written aimed at beginning boat builders who probably know a lot about how to make fiberglass composites or cold molded wood hulls, but haven't a clue about electrical systems. .
Thanks for that information Ike (and others)
Will definitely be put to good use with quotes over here being around $75 an hour x lots for my wiring job.
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Old 02-11-2010, 17:21   #21
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Diagram Version 2

Ok So I have look thru the feedback and changed the diagram. Can I get some feedback on this diagram.

My thoughts are I only have one fuse in the entire system. Is this right? Also I like the suggestion of an interior and accessories busbar I will take this on board and alter the diagram when I get some more time.

I have changes the battery wiring to remove the split from the wind gen, it leaves me with 3 connections to one battery post is this right, it seams messy to me?

Heres the new diagram
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Old 02-11-2010, 17:44   #22
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I hate to say it but you are not even close, Please read the books recommended at least. i know it is just a 28 foot boat but they burn just like the big ones. And if you want things to work when you need it you have to do it right not guess at it.
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Old 02-11-2010, 18:13   #23
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Hmm.. I dont see a regular for the wind turbine. Smarter people than me will know if you need one. But just thought I should mention it.

Also Each circuit should have its own Fuse/Breaker. Most proprietry switch panels come with them. eg



( they are just a couple of examples. But you really do need a fuse/breaker on each circuit.)

You will also need to work out what size cable you will need. The Current drain of an Auto Pilot is much much more than the drain of the LED light in the head. Similarly, remember that the heavy loads will suffer from any voltage drop over long distances.

Cheers
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Old 02-11-2010, 19:46   #24
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Thanks for your opinions

Quote:
Originally Posted by sailvayu View Post
I hate to say it but you are not even close, Please read the books recommended at least. i know it is just a 28 foot boat but they burn just like the big ones. And if you want things to work when you need it you have to do it right not guess at it.
I know this could be seen as a negative post but it really is great. I want this done right hence I posted the details so anything that could cause an issue can be removed. I do plan to read the books mentioned but I really struggle with many of the words and concepts they talk about so up until now I have avoided them. I will however confront this fear and try anyway.

Sailvayu from what you have seen so far could you name 2-3 areas on my schematic that you would be concerned about so we can further the discussion?

Thanks again
Damien
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Old 02-11-2010, 20:50   #25
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Don't get discouraged Damien. I also think the diagram is not very close yet but it's a learning process. I agree that you could read some books. Another thought is to google images for "Sailboat Wiring Diagrams" - This will give you images to look at as samples of wiring schematics.

OK - To go a little deeper. What you are drawing so far is not really a schematic. It is also not really an installation diagram. The major difference is that a schematic is the specification for the electrical system. It doesn't need pictures and it doesn't lay out where parts are located physically. It identifies the components and the wires and the specs for everything. e.g Wire size and colors, switch ratings, fuse vs. circuit breaker, fuse ratings and types. In installation diagram, will likely have the location of the component, a picture of the component and both mechanical (mounting) and electrical hook ups depicted.

You don't need to put pictures of the gps and the light bulbs - you do need to familiarize yourself with some standard symbology and that's where the books and the sample schematics help. I was going to take a slash at your schematic but unfortunately I am really out of time this week. I may have some time next week but who knows - life...

You can also buy plastic templates with basic symbology on them - useful if you draw lots of schematics.



Here is a sample schematic from the web - you can see how it is different than yours in it's concept. Of course it has nothing to do with what you are trying to install but it gives you an idea of how to lay out, label and draw a schematic. The major difference in this drawing as that it assumes a ground plane - i.e. there is no negative bus depicted - It assumes the negative system is hooked up appropriately. Doing the schematic this way is a matter of choice and what you are trying to depict. I would show the ground bus but that adds extra lines to the drawing. That can be an issue on very complex schematics.



My issue with this schematic is the wiring is not readily identified.

Normally you will see something like

R/BL 1.5 (Translation Red wire, blue stripe carrying 1.5 amps)
BR/WH 10 (Brown wire, white stripe 10 amps)

or

R/BL AWG 14 (Translation Red Wire, blue stripe of AWG 14 wire size.

There will be a code list for the wire colors somewhere on the schematic.
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Old 02-11-2010, 23:44   #26
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Thanks fantastic, I realise my drawing is very simple and im not in anyway trying to fool myself I know what im doing yet, however I know I have the ability to apply myself and learn and im starting to narrow down the direction I need to head in. Thanks Ex-Calif and the many other contributors.

Damien
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Old 03-11-2010, 04:29   #27
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Didn't we have another thread about wiring diagrams?

I've produced a series of them such as:

110v wiring (with an inverters this also has some 12v)
12v main wiring (batteries, charging sources etc.)
12v distribution
12v navigation instruments
12v monitor system (link)
NMEA wiring
12v engine gauges and starting
mast wiring

Here are some of them all done with a basic CAD program. They are not technically correct since I didn't use the standard symbols. But they help me figure out the spaghetti. And there's lots of it.

I sometimes do a drawing/diagram which more closely reflects the actual layout so the diagram is more understandable when looking at the physical set up. I find this helps years on when I have forgotten which wire does what.
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File Type: pdf C - 12v Distribution.pdf (195.4 KB, 436 views)
File Type: pdf D - NMEA.pdf (96.9 KB, 278 views)
File Type: pdf 110v AC.pdf (118.0 KB, 248 views)
File Type: pdf B - Volvo 12v.pdf (117.4 KB, 252 views)
File Type: pdf A - 12v main.pdf (154.5 KB, 346 views)
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Old 03-11-2010, 05:38   #28
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Damien, Im a professional electronics engineer, Dont worry about the " correctness " of the drawing, once it electrically makes sense thats fine. Whats important is that you undertand it , not that it confirms to what "professionals " might think.

Here whats needed to finish

(a) Battery fuse ( one) , not allways fitted but good practice, this should be positioned close to the battery on the common positive feed to the battery switch ( and not after the switch as somebody said). size it to about half of the rating of the battery cable , but obviously the cable and the fuse should be a good bit bigger than the worst case normal comsumption current.

(b) The battery switch, since you have a paralled battery, one good quality switch on the positive feed is all thats needed.

(c) The busbars are fine, but you need a circuit breaker panel ( on the positive feeds) for each of those feeds to the consumption devices. In practice since the positive feeds run through the breakers, you can use this as the positive busbar. The panels pictured in some previous posts are typical.

(d) The wind generator will need a controller, some are now internal to the generator but most are external. That will need to be wired in accroding to its instructions.

(e) Questions, since a wind generator isnt going to be enough to power this all the time, are you not going to have other power sources, ( solar, shore power, genny, alternator,etc), whats happens when you have no wind for a few days.

All this assumes you are comfortable with teh basics, like stripping wires, making terminations etc.

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Old 03-11-2010, 05:59   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dame.n.Jess View Post
I know this could be seen as a negative post but it really is great. I want this done right hence I posted the details so anything that could cause an issue can be removed. I do plan to read the books mentioned but I really struggle with many of the words and concepts they talk about so up until now I have avoided them. I will however confront this fear and try anyway.

Sailvayu from what you have seen so far could you name 2-3 areas on my schematic that you would be concerned about so we can further the discussion?

Thanks again
Damien
I was not trying to be negative but I do get frustrated when it seems like some people think this stuff is easy and owning a boat makes you an electrician. I have just seen so many poorly wired boats, not trying to be uppity. I also think you really will have a hard time learning on a forum like this because you will get so much conflicting advice. I know all the posters mean well, some really know there stuff but others just think they do, you will end up confused. I applaud you for wanting to learn, get a couple of good books and read them. This is not rocket science so do not be afraid of terminology, if you hit something you do not understand then ask. I honesty got the feeling you came here just to have someone do this for you. If you really want to learn this stuff and i think you should, go read the books then come back and ask. The advice you get will make more sense and you will at least be making educated guesses instead of just random guesses. I am more than happy to help someone if they are willing to help themselves.
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Old 03-11-2010, 08:56   #30
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Damien, Im a professional electronics engineer, Dont worry about the " correctness " of the drawing, once it electrically makes sense thats fine. Whats important is that you undertand it , not that it confirms to what "professionals " might think.
I agree with Dave's comments. However, making a schematic that makes sense to you, but only to you, doesn't do much for the guy that follows you in. That's why there are standard symbologies.

However - the key point is "electrically correct"

We can do that with you on forum - even with dissenting opinion. There are enough credible smart guys here that we may argue on the perimeter but we'll agree on the majority.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sailvayu View Post
I was not trying to be negative but I do get frustrated when it seems like some people think this stuff is easy and owning a boat makes you an electrician.
This stuff is not "easy" but for someone who has done it it really is very easy. The circuits that Damien are trying to put together I did in 1st year (1st semester?) A&P school.

Learning it across the net is difficult because this is the worst medium for instruction in the history of instructional media.

However - Learning this stuff for a person planning to own a boat long term who isn't a millionaire is pretty important - I have time to keep posting here...
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