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Old 03-04-2016, 07:21   #1
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Silent 10kw genset - 12"x12"x17"? I'm BUYING ONE...

If they ever come to market !!!

Inspired by the insane thread
New Power Generator that relies on magnets - Page 8 - Cruisers & Sailing Forums

I was recalling an article in the last issue of PBB (professional boat builder)... It was a FANTASTIC summary of Harry Schoell, and some of the amazing things he accomplished in the marine industry... Truly eye opening... I don't think I can post the article due to copyright, but here's a clip from the end with the mention of the genset...

Anything this guy says I would stake with serious validity... I wonder what's stopping him from pursuing this???
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Old 03-04-2016, 08:50   #2
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Re: Silent 10kw genset - 12"x12"x17"? I'm BUYING ONE...

Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyMdRSailor View Post
. . .Anything this guy says I would stake with serious validity... I wonder what's stopping him from pursuing this???
The answer is, he can't get it to work.

He's sold it to a lot of people, and has raised a lot of money based on a lot of hype, but it still doesn't work.

It's a good old fashioned external combustion engine, with a lot of heat recuperation. So probably no reason why something similar to this couldn't work. Unlike perpetual motion machines. It might not be this version and might not be this guy, though.
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Old 03-04-2016, 18:50   #3
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Re: Silent 10kw genset - 12"x12"x17"? I'm BUYING ONE...

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perpetual motion machines.
Like an Escher drawing. Clever engineering drawings, those.
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Old 04-04-2016, 04:12   #4
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Re: Silent 10kw genset - 12"x12"x17"? I'm BUYING ONE...

My money is on three technologies, for great on board generators:

1. Fuel cells. Already commercialized, still very expensive. But the principles are well known, so perhaps can be developed into something with reasonable operating costs.

2. Free piston diesel engines. We discussed this recently. This radically simplifies the diesel engine, making it much smaller, much lighter, and more efficient. Because it eliminates the rods, crankshaft, flywheel, etc. Much smaller reciprocating mass means it will be smoother and quieter. This is really very exciting, and I think there is reasonable hope that it will be developed and commercialized quickly, since it's desperately needed for electric cars.

3. Stirling cycle co-generation, external combustion. Like the now defunct WhisperGen. What a great device for those of us who almost constantly need heat. The old device produced a high proportion of heat to electrical power; what we need is more electrical power. There is no reason of physics why more of the energy can't be extracted to produce electrical power. I would like one which can produce up to 10kW of heat and say 4kW of electrical power, and which can be turned down to produce proportionately less of both while maintaining a reasonable level of efficiency. Would replace both generator and central heating furnace.
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Old 04-04-2016, 09:58   #5
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Re: Silent 10kw genset - 12"x12"x17"? I'm BUYING ONE...

Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyMdRSailor View Post
If they ever come to market !!!

Inspired by the insane thread
New Power Generator that relies on magnets - Page 8 - Cruisers & Sailing Forums

I was recalling an article in the last issue of PBB (professional boat builder)... It was a FANTASTIC summary of Harry Schoell, and some of the amazing things he accomplished in the marine industry... Truly eye opening... I don't think I can post the article due to copyright, but here's a clip from the end with the mention of the genset...

Anything this guy says I would stake with serious validity... I wonder what's stopping him from pursuing this???
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Old 04-04-2016, 17:02   #6
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Re: Silent 10kw genset - 12"x12"x17"? I'm BUYING ONE...

Hello,

There is an engineering consideration at work here; if it sounds too good to be true, it is... Though the role of early adopters is important in the development of any new technology, it is far better to not be on the cutting edge (aka the bleeding edge).

Just saying.

Kindest,

Sundae.
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Old 04-04-2016, 17:55   #7
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Re: Silent 10kw genset - 12"x12"x17"? I'm BUYING ONE...

You missed it by a week or two. There was a post here about a generator that ran on magnets and a nine volt radio battery.
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Old 05-04-2016, 06:06   #8
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Re: Silent 10kw genset - 12"x12"x17"? I'm BUYING ONE...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
The answer is, he can't get it to work.

He's sold it to a lot of people, and has raised a lot of money based on a lot of hype, but it still doesn't work.

It's a good old fashioned external combustion engine, with a lot of heat recuperation. So probably no reason why something similar to this couldn't work. Unlike perpetual motion machines. It might not be this version and might not be this guy, though.
Ahh... Maybe he's holding out for the 5 Million military "development contract"... I know I would!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
My money is on three technologies, for great on board generators:

1. Fuel cells. Already commercialized, still very expensive. But the principles are well known, so perhaps can be developed into something with reasonable operating costs.

2. Free piston diesel engines. We discussed this recently. This radically simplifies the diesel engine, making it much smaller, much lighter, and more efficient. Because it eliminates the rods, crankshaft, flywheel, etc. Much smaller reciprocating mass means it will be smoother and quieter. This is really very exciting, and I think there is reasonable hope that it will be developed and commercialized quickly, since it's desperately needed for electric cars.

3. Stirling cycle co-generation, external combustion. Like the now defunct WhisperGen. What a great device for those of us who almost constantly need heat. The old device produced a high proportion of heat to electrical power; what we need is more electrical power. There is no reason of physics why more of the energy can't be extracted to produce electrical power. I would like one which can produce up to 10kW of heat and say 4kW of electrical power, and which can be turned down to produce proportionately less of both while maintaining a reasonable level of efficiency. Would replace both generator and central heating furnace.
I know just enough about all 3 of these to get me into trouble... or follow along in a bar conversation...

Simple experience and knowledge about loads (mechanical) put on generating units (ac or dc) to make juice... Explains the obstacles for sure...
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Old 05-04-2016, 06:42   #9
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Re: Silent 10kw genset - 12"x12"x17"? I'm BUYING ONE...

If it was fuel efficient and reasonably priced, we will all be changing over to hybrid electric over the next 5-10yrs. A bank of 2-6 of these ganged together would be able to replace the diesel propulsion engines on most small cruising boats, even better, you could simply run enough for current power needs. If you are just tooling around the harbor at 4kts, maybe one unit could provide enough power but as speed builds, you bring more online to provide the power. When you anchor, you run one to provide house electric loads.


Of course, if it was viable, the military, car companies and a lot of other users would have bought and implemented it.
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Old 05-04-2016, 06:48   #10
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Re: Silent 10kw genset - 12"x12"x17"? I'm BUYING ONE...

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. . . Of course, if it was viable, the military, car companies and a lot of other users would have bought and implemented it.
Billions are being spent on development of several of these technologies, because of electric cars.

There will be lots of technologies coming out of this which will spill over beautifully into our world. Just wait and watch.

All these things:

1. Efficient, light weight, reliable, quiet, and cheap electrical power generators.

2. Ever better, more efficient, more compact, more idiot-proof, cheaper batteries.

3. Electric motors and controllers, more efficient, compact, reliable, and cheap, for hybrid drive.

Are needed in vast quantities for electric cars.


As far as we're concerned, this is all good. Very, very, very good.
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Old 05-04-2016, 07:56   #11
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Re: Silent 10kw genset - 12"x12"x17"? I'm BUYING ONE...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
Billions are being spent on development of several of these technologies, because of electric cars.

There will be lots of technologies coming out of this which will spill over beautifully into our world. Just wait and watch.

All these things:

1. Efficient, light weight, reliable, quiet, and cheap electrical power generators.

2. Ever better, more efficient, more compact, more idiot-proof, cheaper batteries.

3. Electric motors and controllers, more efficient, compact, reliable, and cheap, for hybrid drive.

Are needed in vast quantities for electric cars.


As far as we're concerned, this is all good. Very, very, very good.
As I said, if it's real, it will take very little time to change the market and yes we will all benefit in the cruising world but other than news articles about the next big thing, we are seeing small incremental changes that won't change the market.

The problem is most of the stuff we are seeing is not the break thru needed. Electric cars have been viable for decades but for some reason, the manufacturers have refused to seriously market them for their perfect niche. Unlike cruising boats, a large percentage of cars travel less than 50miles in a day and could easily be recharged overnight. Many of those are in multi-car households where another car can be used for longer trips. By keeping it simple, a $10-15k car with a 50mile range would have sold like hotcakes back when gas was $4/gal (current cheap gas undercuts that). Of course none of this applies to a cruising boat use case (see prior electric propulsion threads).
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Old 05-04-2016, 08:06   #12
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Re: Silent 10kw genset - 12"x12"x17"? I'm BUYING ONE...

The gov. has some relatedly small "gas" turbines, probably run on kerosene. I can see that size being feasible.

A lot more feasible than the 9V battery nonsense.
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Old 05-04-2016, 08:52   #13
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Re: Silent 10kw genset - 12"x12"x17"? I'm BUYING ONE...

I saw a very small, compact "power pack" 5Kw based on an internal combustion engine, no bigger than an attache being used by FEMA people a couple years ago..
So.. technology and product are "out there", simply you cannot pay/afford/find due "security reason"
By the way when I approach so close to that pack (I'm engineer and off course immediately caught my attention), I was blocked for a couple big guys with guns.. next time
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Old 09-04-2016, 07:36   #14
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Re: Silent 10kw genset - 12"x12"x17"? I'm BUYING ONE...

Interestingly, I was over at my brother-in-laws yesterday and he had the V8 out of his power boat and on a stand to work on.

It brought back just how truly small ICE engines are. I'm not sure the HP but at least 250 (200kw?) and only around 20x20x28 with the exhaust system stripped off. It's really petty similar with most applications. The ICE on my Yamaha generator is less than 25% of the volume.

I have to wonder if this generator is a similar situation. Once you produce a usable system that can be bolted into the generator compartment, will it be multiple times larger.
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