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Old 24-01-2016, 09:37   #1
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Shorepower cycle converters

Does anyone have experience using either Atlas Marine or Asea Isolating Transformers with Cycle Conversion? (ITCC)
We are spec'ing out a 50ft sailing cat for multi-country use and want the ability to convert 110-220v 50/60Hz into 110v/60Hz.
We are considering the 12 kva ITCC devices from both companies and would like to hear other's experience.
thanks
Paul


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Old 24-01-2016, 12:59   #2
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Re: Shorepower cycle converters

I have done one installation of the ASea 12kVA and it worked flawlessly. Tech support from the company was exceptional.
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Old 24-01-2016, 14:28   #3
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Re: Shorepower cycle converters

Both work well and are well supported



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Old 25-01-2016, 08:42   #4
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Shorepower cycle converters

Thanks CharlieJ and Scott.

When in the USA did you use the Marinco "Y" that creates 220v from two 110v 30A cords to meet the cycle convertor's 170v input minimum?

Do you also install separate 110v shore connections that bypasses the cycle convertor when in the US?

Paul



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Old 25-01-2016, 08:47   #5
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Re: Shorepower cycle converters

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Originally Posted by Catalysis View Post
Thanks CharlieJ and Scott.

When in the USA did you use the Marinco "Y" that creates 220v from two 110v 30A cords to meet the cycle convertor's 170v input minimum?

Do you also install separate 110v shore connections that bypasses the cycle convertor when in the US?

Paul



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That's a crap shoot.....no guarantee you'll get 2 opposite phases when plugging into multiple 30A outlets.
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Old 25-01-2016, 08:55   #6
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Re: Shorepower cycle converters

IMHO, the best cycle converter is an inverter with separate battery charger.

Totally simple and effective.

Just pass all power through your inverter when it's out of cycle.

When it's in cycle, you can pass it through with power boost from the inverter, if you have a modern type of charger/inverter.
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Old 29-05-2016, 14:19   #7
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Re: Shorepower cycle converters

Thanks for the suggestions earlier this year.

We ended up with this design to allow us to utilize 110-220v and 50-60Hz.
We have split up users to 60Hz and cycle agnostic .
For those times when we only have 50 Hz available the 60 cycle dependent consumers will be supplied via our 20kw LiFePo bank which will be charged via a separate Mastervolt charger.

Any comments or suggestions welcomed.

The attached diagram is a simplified version the full wiring schematic is 8 pages long.

Paul



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Old 29-05-2016, 18:48   #8
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Re: Shorepower cycle converters

I think you have a good approach. The big integrated systems are nice, but expensive compared to what you have. They also take up a lot of space and throw off a lot of heat.
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Old 29-05-2016, 20:41   #9
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Re: Shorepower cycle converters

Tanglewood
Thanks - life and boat systems are a compromise :-)
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Old 30-05-2016, 01:56   #10
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Re: Shorepower cycle converters

you'd want a few chargers. when you are running the boat at 50hz off inverter at dock you could easily be pulling over 100a from the batteries. silly to be draining a battery while plugged in.


are you sure the inverter / chargers can pass through 50/60? most can't. they are gernally only single freq. you would need to bypass the inverter / charger to feed 50hz to the loads.

looks like it might. I am surprized. I guess one of those would be charging the house bank on 50hz as well as the charger
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Old 30-05-2016, 06:14   #11
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Re: Shorepower cycle converters

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you'd want a few chargers. when you are running the boat at 50hz off inverter at dock you could easily be pulling over 100a from the batteries. silly to be draining a battery while plugged in.


are you sure the inverter / chargers can pass through 50/60? most can't. they are gernally only single freq. you would need to bypass the inverter / charger to feed 50hz to the loads.

looks like it might. I am surprised. I guess one of those would be charging the house bank on 50hz as well as the charger
As I recall those inverters have one output that is always connected directly to the input, so I believe that's what he has the water heater connected to. The other output will remain on inverter when there is a 50hz input, and bypass/pass through when there is 60hz on the input. So I think it's OK assuming they have carefully read how the device works.

I agree with your recommendation for another charger. Loading is one reason, and redundancy is another.
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Old 30-05-2016, 07:47   #12
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Re: Shorepower cycle converters

Tangle wood,
You are correct there will always be two chargers connected to the battery banks .
The isolation transformers are rated for 50/60hz service and the Mastervolt Chargers and also 50/60 cycle rated.
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Old 30-05-2016, 08:11   #13
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Re: Shorepower cycle converters

As I understand it, the Mass Combi's can charge or invert but not both at the same time.

When on 60Hz supply mode the two Mass combi's and the Charge Master will be charging the batteries.

When on 50 Hz supply the batteries will be charged by the Charge Master and Mass Combi #2. Mass Combi #1 will be in Invertor mode supplying the 60Hz users.

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Old 30-05-2016, 09:21   #14
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Re: Shorepower cycle converters

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As I understand it, the Mass Combi's can charge or invert but not both at the same time.

When on 60Hz supply mode the two Mass combi's and the Charge Master will be charging the batteries.

When on 50 Hz supply the batteries will be charged by the Charge Master and Mass Combi #2. Mass Combi #1 will be in Invertor mode supplying the 60Hz users.

Paul



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Yes, I think that is correct.
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Old 30-05-2016, 09:36   #15
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Re: Shorepower cycle converters

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Tangle wood,
You are correct there will always be two chargers connected to the battery banks .
The isolation transformers are rated for 50/60hz service and the Mastervolt Chargers and also 50/60 cycle rated.
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Actually, I think you only have one charger when on 50hz power. If that one charger failed, you would not be able to utilize shore power to charge batteries. You would have to charge via your generator and the Mass Combis.

I think the original comment made by someone else was that if you are connected to 50hz shore power and running 60hz loads on board that exceed about 2400 watts (the output capacity of your charger), you will be draining your batteries. That's not a big deal for transient loads, but if they are sustained loads at that level you will eventually drain down your batteries.

I think in practice, you will be exposed to this if you are running your HVAC off 50hz shore power. If you were to add a second charger then you would have 4800W of charging capacity and can support the same as a sustained load. With that, your HVAC can probably cycle on an off while at the same time leaving enough charge capacity to bring your batteries up to full charge as well. Plus you get the added bonus of redundancy. If one of those chargers fails, you can still utilize 50hz shore power using the second charger, though of course your capacity would drop back down to 2400W.

If you don't add a second charger now, you might consider leaving space for one when you lay out equipment. Then if you later decide to add it, the job will be much easier than if you need to relocate other equipment to make room.

One other comment. I see that each of your Mass/Combi units sends passthru power to a how water heater. As drawn, I'm assuming you have two separate hot water heaters, or perhaps a single HWH with two separate heating elements? I just want to be sure you are not planning to wire together the outputs of the two inverters.
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