REVERSE POLARITY - Page 3

ssullivan · 08-01-2007, 16:39

Yes, and the lower priced your genset is, the more likely that it is simply an alternator being rectified as Gord says. They do make some high end DC gensets these days, but they are pricey. I'm fairly sure an inexpensive Honda is the type Gord is talking about.

hellosailor · 08-01-2007, 17:05

Thanks, Sean. Apparently the info about the Honda being dc-native was simply wrong. OTOH I saw a graph of the beautiful 110VAC sine-wave output from one...oddly noted as 12.2V on the scale. So much for the power of the internet, pun allowed.

It's a shame folks put out used computers and furniture in my neighborhood, but no lawnmowers. No handy source for small B&S engines.<G>

SV Dawn · 08-01-2007, 20:22

Hi All. I am a newbie on this forum but I have monitored it for years. I do have some experience on this topic though. As previously noted the Honda 2000 ground is isolated from neutral. This has to do with when it's used as a house (residential)supply. When used as a shorepower sustitute (which has the wht and grn wires common on shore with a gound rod) the Heart Inv/chgr will be seeking a common ground and neutral (no voltage between wht and grn) before it will let the internal a/c transfer relays supply power to the boat. The ground (grn) is simply floating from Honda chassis to the heart input. My solution was to make up a separate shorepower cord for the Honda combining wht and grn wires and it has worked fine for 4 yrs. Sorry this is so lengthy.

Andy Andersen

hellosailor · 08-01-2007, 21:40

Bravo, Andy! Thanks for the facts.

ssullivan · 09-01-2007, 07:07

Yes, Bravo! This might very well be the best opening post ever.

Based on Andy's solution, could you also bond the "white" and "green" (neutral and ground) at the genset itself and use your normal shore power cord?

My genset is bonded by default, but you could remove the bonding if you choose, since it's just a small wire attached to a bolt and clearly labeled.

Vasco · 09-01-2007, 07:21

Andy,

What you say makes sense but all the folks I know just run the things (Hondas) without bonding the white and green and it works. Is this practise dangerous? I just use a short extension cord out of the Honda and into a 15/30 amp cheater and into my shorepower receptacle. No problems so far.

SV Dawn · 09-01-2007, 12:19

Rick,
My combo is a Honda 2000 and a Heart 1000 connected with a 20 ft. cord to a 30A shoreplug.. Before the mod it would occasionally connect but not reliably. I think various combos and installations might be different. The "reverse polarity" LED would occasionally flicker while this was happening which means there was voltage between wht and grn. Perhaps it was being induced into the floating green or from the micoprocessor in the Heart I don't know. I was'nt able to trace it down but combining eliminted the problem. I'm not advising anyone to take the same approach but as you've noted the neutral and green are common at the generator on permanent inboard installations. Also Sean, you could do it at the generator(Honda) but the cord was easiest as I had the materials and I wanted to leave the Honda Stock for warranty purposes.
Andy

nelsonsmoody · 09-01-2007, 12:34

Andy,
Thank you that makes senses. I going to figure out how to make one.
Nelson

Vasco · 09-01-2007, 12:43

Can any harm be done by continuing to run the Honda and charge batteries while the reverse polarity light is on? If the answer is yes I'd better modify my extension cord. It's one of those sealed ones so I'll have to cut it and re-connect.

SV Dawn · 09-01-2007, 13:37

Rick,
I'm of the "If it ain't broke don't fix it" school. I considerded this a nuisance problem. Obviously if you were connected directly to the a/c buss and not through the inv/cgr it wouldn't be a problem as the sensing circuits would be out of the loop. I don't think there is anything more inherently safe with the mod. It's just trying to duplicate what the Heart shorepower input is looking for. There is a much greater danger when actually connected to shore power as we are all aware of when the a/c circuits are less than adequate but thats a whole other bag of worms
Andy

09-01-2007, 07:21	#36
Vasco Registered User Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Toronto in the summer, the Bahamas in wintertime. Boat: CS36Merlin, "La Belle Aurore" Ben393 "Breathless" Posts: 2,444	Andy, What you say makes sense but all the folks I know just run the things (Hondas) without bonding the white and green and it works. Is this practise dangerous? I just use a short extension cord out of the Honda and into a 15/30 amp cheater and into my shorepower receptacle. No problems so far. __________________ Rick I Toronto

09-01-2007, 12:34	#38
nelsonsmoody Registered User Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: SAILING OUT OF MYSTIC CT. Boat: MOODY 425 42' __/) LADY LENA __/) Posts: 40	Andy, Thank you that makes senses. I going to figure out how to make one. Nelson __________________ MOODY 425 __/)

09-01-2007, 12:43	#39
Vasco Registered User Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Toronto in the summer, the Bahamas in wintertime. Boat: CS36Merlin, "La Belle Aurore" Ben393 "Breathless" Posts: 2,444	Can any harm be done by continuing to run the Honda and charge batteries while the reverse polarity light is on? If the answer is yes I'd better modify my extension cord. It's one of those sealed ones so I'll have to cut it and re-connect. __________________ Rick I Toronto

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08-01-2007, 16:39	#31
ssullivan Senior Cruiser Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 4,530	Yes, and the lower priced your genset is, the more likely that it is simply an alternator being rectified as Gord says. They do make some high end DC gensets these days, but they are pricey. I'm fairly sure an inexpensive Honda is the type Gord is talking about.

08-01-2007, 17:05	#32
hellosailor Registered User Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 3,993	Thanks, Sean. Apparently the info about the Honda being dc-native was simply wrong. OTOH I saw a graph of the beautiful 110VAC sine-wave output from one...oddly noted as 12.2V on the scale. So much for the power of the internet, pun allowed. It's a shame folks put out used computers and furniture in my neighborhood, but no lawnmowers. No handy source for small B&S engines.<G>

08-01-2007, 20:22	#33
SV Dawn Registered User Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Hermosa Beach, Ca. Boat: Roughwater 33 "Dawn" Posts: 8	Hi All. I am a newbie on this forum but I have monitored it for years. I do have some experience on this topic though. As previously noted the Honda 2000 ground is isolated from neutral. This has to do with when it's used as a house (residential)supply. When used as a shorepower sustitute (which has the wht and grn wires common on shore with a gound rod) the Heart Inv/chgr will be seeking a common ground and neutral (no voltage between wht and grn) before it will let the internal a/c transfer relays supply power to the boat. The ground (grn) is simply floating from Honda chassis to the heart input. My solution was to make up a separate shorepower cord for the Honda combining wht and grn wires and it has worked fine for 4 yrs. Sorry this is so lengthy. Andy Andersen

08-01-2007, 21:40	#34
hellosailor Registered User Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 3,993	Bravo, Andy! Thanks for the facts.

09-01-2007, 07:07	#35
ssullivan Senior Cruiser Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 4,530	Yes, Bravo! This might very well be the best opening post ever. Based on Andy's solution, could you also bond the "white" and "green" (neutral and ground) at the genset itself and use your normal shore power cord? My genset is bonded by default, but you could remove the bonding if you choose, since it's just a small wire attached to a bolt and clearly labeled.

09-01-2007, 12:19	#37
SV Dawn Registered User Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Hermosa Beach, Ca. Boat: Roughwater 33 "Dawn" Posts: 8	Rick, My combo is a Honda 2000 and a Heart 1000 connected with a 20 ft. cord to a 30A shoreplug.. Before the mod it would occasionally connect but not reliably. I think various combos and installations might be different. The "reverse polarity" LED would occasionally flicker while this was happening which means there was voltage between wht and grn. Perhaps it was being induced into the floating green or from the micoprocessor in the Heart I don't know. I was'nt able to trace it down but combining eliminted the problem. I'm not advising anyone to take the same approach but as you've noted the neutral and green are common at the generator on permanent inboard installations. Also Sean, you could do it at the generator(Honda) but the cord was easiest as I had the materials and I wanted to leave the Honda Stock for warranty purposes. Andy

09-01-2007, 13:37	#40
SV Dawn Registered User Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Hermosa Beach, Ca. Boat: Roughwater 33 "Dawn" Posts: 8	Rick, I'm of the "If it ain't broke don't fix it" school. I considerded this a nuisance problem. Obviously if you were connected directly to the a/c buss and not through the inv/cgr it wouldn't be a problem as the sensing circuits would be out of the loop. I don't think there is anything more inherently safe with the mod. It's just trying to duplicate what the Heart shorepower input is looking for. There is a much greater danger when actually connected to shore power as we are all aware of when the a/c circuits are less than adequate but thats a whole other bag of worms Andy