Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 28-08-2016, 07:28   #31
Don't ask if you can't handle it
 
sailorboy1's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: On the boat somewhere
Boat: Hunter 410
Posts: 12,138
Re: Relay - heat in wire. Replacement part?

Well replacing the relay is worth doing, but doesn't it bother you that you don't even know what this circuit is for?

Connecting the red wires should start something. But if there is power on both red wires the load should also be on already and if the wires are hot that is indicated. Those look like at least a 10 gage wire so it isn't a small load. One of those red wires should have a fuse/breaker on the end of it.

I don't think that wiring is original by Bene. That brown wire is in a dual wire cable with the other wire just cut off, no manufacturer would have done that. Where does the brown wire go?
__________________

__________________
jobless, houseless, clueless, living on a boat and cruising around somewhere
sailorboy1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-08-2016, 07:52   #32
Registered User
 
hoppy's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Boat: Jeanneau Sun Odyssey 40
Posts: 2,833
Re: Relay - heat in wire. Replacement part?

Have you tested it with a multimeter?

I'm not an electrician or similar and other than installing a relay for my watermaker I have no experience with them, but I have a slight clue about how to trouble shoot problems like this.

The heat you feel is possibly caused by some high resistance caused by a fault in the relay and this is how I would go about tracking down the problem.

Set it on the Ohmmeter setting to test the resistance. If you are not familiar with it's function then this is what you should see.. When the terminals on the ohmmeter are not connected, then you will get no reading. If you hold the terminals together, you should be making a good circuit and get a low resistance reading, very close to zero. if you hold the terminals in your fingers, you will make a circuit with your body, so you will get a reading which shows the level of resistance in your body.

With all wires disconnected from the relay, use the ohmmeter on terminals 3 & 4. There probably should be no circuit made and therefore you should not be getting a reading. If you do get a reading, then the circuit is always on and that's a problem.

Then test terminals 1 & 2. I'm not familiar with relays, but I would imagine that you probably should be making a circuit and therefore get a low, close to zero reading. If you get a higher reading (like when you tested it with your body) then this could be the resistance that creates the heat.

Finally, connect the wires back on to terminals 1 & 2 and assuming its controlled by the ignition turn it on. If you are not sure, test using the volt meter to see what sends voltage to the wires on 1 & 2 (should be + & - wires). When there is power to 1&2 then test terminals 3 & 4 for resistance again. If the relay is working, then you should get a low (close to zero) reading.

In all likelihood there is a problem with the relay and they are dirt cheap from an automotive supply place, so buy one and then do the tests on both to make yourself familiar with them. I wish I had one handy now as I'm curious to test to see if I am talking complete BS or not
__________________

__________________
S/Y Jessabbé http://www.jessabbe.com/
hoppy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-08-2016, 08:30   #33
Registered User
 
hoppy's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Boat: Jeanneau Sun Odyssey 40
Posts: 2,833
Re: Relay - heat in wire. Replacement part?

Quote:
Originally Posted by hoppy View Post
Have you tested it with a multimeter?

I'm not an electrician or similar and other than installing a relay for my watermaker I have no experience with them, but I have a slight clue about how to trouble shoot problems like this.

The heat you feel is possibly caused by some high resistance caused by a fault in the relay and this is how I would go about tracking down the problem.

Set it on the Ohmmeter setting to test the resistance. If you are not familiar with it's function then this is what you should see.. When the terminals on the ohmmeter are not connected, then you will get no reading. If you hold the terminals together, you should be making a good circuit and get a low resistance reading, very close to zero. if you hold the terminals in your fingers, you will make a circuit with your body, so you will get a reading which shows the level of resistance in your body.

With all wires disconnected from the relay, use the ohmmeter on terminals 3 & 4. There probably should be no circuit made and therefore you should not be getting a reading. If you do get a reading, then the circuit is always on and that's a problem.

Then test terminals 1 & 2. I'm not familiar with relays, but I would imagine that you probably should be making a circuit and therefore get a low, close to zero reading. If you get a higher reading (like when you tested it with your body) then this could be the resistance that creates the heat.

Finally, connect the wires back on to terminals 1 & 2 and assuming its controlled by the ignition turn it on. If you are not sure, test using the volt meter to see what sends voltage to the wires on 1 & 2 (should be + & - wires). When there is power to 1&2 then test terminals 3 & 4 for resistance again. If the relay is working, then you should get a low (close to zero) reading.

In all likelihood there is a problem with the relay and they are dirt cheap from an automotive supply place, so buy one and then do the tests on both to make yourself familiar with them. I wish I had one handy now as I'm curious to test to see if I am talking complete BS or not
I think I misread the diagram on the relay....

3&4 are probably connected to the switch that turns on and off the relay and 1&2 is the positive source that connects the battery to the device that will run. So in my post everything is reversed


I'm guessing that the solenoid is connected to the starter motor and therefore 3&4 are probably connected to the ignition key in it's engine start position. The relay is probably the engine starter relay. So when you turn the key to start, the voltage comes through the red wires to 3&4 and then the voltage from the brown wire will be sent to both blue wires, one to the starter motor and the other to whatever circuits need to be powered only when starting.

The brown wire will in all likelihood will have power when the ignition key is on and may also be live even in the off position. If you are getting heat when the ignition is off, then it is likely that the brown wire is always live (by design) and a fault in the relay is causing the heat.

Disconnect the brown wire from the relay and try starting your engine. The starter will probably not run... (note, do at own risk as I'm just using deductive reasoning and not factual knowledge )
__________________
S/Y Jessabbé http://www.jessabbe.com/
hoppy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-08-2016, 08:31   #34
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Caribbean
Posts: 946
Re: Relay - heat in wire. Replacement part?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkJ View Post
Did this job at 1AM only slightly drunk, so Solar panels wouldn't affect it.

Relay Hot.

Disconnected the hottest right Red lead. TERMINAL remained hot.
Disconnected other left Red lea. Right terminal remained hot!
Disconnected Brown lead. Terminal Cooled down.

Whilst 2 Red leads disconnected I reconnected the Brown lead and could hear a click inside the Relay, and relay Red terminals got hot again.

Supposition: The Relay is fried.

Is that correct?

Without the leads on, started engine and no engine room blower.
Replaced the leads and started engine and still no engine room blower.

Supposition: Relay controls engine room blower.

Do you guys agree?



Looking at the picture it doesn't seem correctly wired. The solenoid is passing current seemingly through its coil and the relay in series rather than in parallel. The wire into the relay seems to be going through the solenoid first, so will create a voltage drop at the relay and that could cause the relay coil to run hotter than it should. You can measure the volts at the relay coil to check by how much. You can also measure the current draw of the relay coil to check against specification.

From what you have said: If the relay gets hot when the relay contacts are disconnected then it is not the red wires on the contacts that are part of the problem, the coil is drawing too much power. Maybe the coil connections (brown and opposite lead) are corroded or some other contacts downstream. Maybe the coil is failing. Check resistance and clean up contacts/replace wires/connections and if good then replace the relay. Any cheapo car relay will be fine of the same rating.

If it is clicking, it is probably moving the contacts, so probably working fine. Do they connect through the relay well (good continuity)?

But, why is the relay on in the first place? I imagine if I understood you correctly you got to the boat after your night out and it was hot and the engine was not on. I can't see why the relay should be on at all. You need to know why. Trace the blue and brown wires back and see how it could be switched on. I think the brown and it's opposite wire will be the relay coil and the red wires the switched wires - to check the switched wire terminals will be numbered 85 and 86 or maybe 3 and 4 on the relay base.

The blue wire terminal insulation on the right of the solenoid looks heat damaged, which if so needs priority attention.
__________________
poiu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-08-2016, 08:37   #35
Registered User
 
hoppy's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Boat: Jeanneau Sun Odyssey 40
Posts: 2,833
Re: Relay - heat in wire. Replacement part?

I just noticed something that looks perhaps a little dodgy. If you look at the white wire cover where the brown wire comes out. It looks like there is a blue wire and bare wire showing. So someone has probably done a bit of a bodge job to rewire it

__________________
S/Y Jessabbé http://www.jessabbe.com/
hoppy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-08-2016, 12:29   #36
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Hawaii
Boat: Tartan T4400
Posts: 167
Re: Relay - heat in wire. Replacement part?

Terminals 1 and 2 operate the normally open leads at terminal 3 and 4. When voltage is present at pin 1 the relay will close (connect) leads 3 and 4.
I would do the following checks
1. Check for 12 volts at terminal 1 (brown) to ground and find out what energizes the relay. Isolate all DC voltages then energize one at a time until there is 12 volts at the brown lead.
It would nice to know what this relay is operating to determine what the load is?

Mark
My big question is why is there 12 volts on the brown lead at all times? I think you may have a problem before the relay and it is energized all the time.
I also think the relay may be the problem as it heats up when energized with no load.
__________________

__________________
Gudgeon is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
men

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Hooking up the yellow alarm wire on a Garmin 740 S to the relay shown in installation aerochuck1 Marine Electronics 1 02-10-2014 09:23
Which Heat Conductive Material to Boost My Exhaust Heat Exchanger? Exhaust Shanaly Plumbing Systems and Fixtures 4 05-07-2013 03:58
New wire being made 5 foot battery wire to terminal strip sdowney717 Electrical: Batteries, Generators & Solar 3 20-08-2012 08:27
How to Wire a Battery Isolator with a Three Wire Alternator ? bazzer Electrical: Batteries, Generators & Solar 7 05-12-2010 12:47


Our Communities

Our communities encompass many different hobbies and interests, but each one is built on friendly, intelligent membership.

» More about our Communities

Automotive Communities

Our Automotive communities encompass many different makes and models. From U.S. domestics to European Saloons.

» More about our Automotive Communities

Marine Communities

Our Marine websites focus on Cruising and Sailing Vessels, including forums and the largest cruising Wiki project on the web today.

» More about our Marine Communities


Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 21:22.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.