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Old 09-02-2013, 21:13   #16
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Okay so why is this on the West marine site. I always had the solenoid past the regulator. Just cause that's how I did it. Could be wrong,http://content.westmarine.com/wm-img...-Propane-1.jpg
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Old 09-02-2013, 21:30   #17
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Re: Quick Gas Question.

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Okay so why is this on the West marine site. I always had the solenoid past the regulator. Just cause that's how I did it. Could be wrong,http://content.westmarine.com/wm-img...-Propane-1.jpg

Is there any gas fitters out there than can answer this one?
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Old 09-02-2013, 21:44   #18
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I'll take a stab at why the solenoid is after the regulator. The tank valve is positive off. The regulator maintains a pressure after the tank. The solenoid valve can't guarantee against a high pressure passing through its seat.
So first valve is on the tank pressure is reduced at the regulator and the solenoid handles low pressure gas.
Not a gas fitter but if you think about what is sealing the gas from coming into the boat it makes sense.
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Old 10-02-2013, 03:34   #19
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Re: Quick Gas Question.

Put it back together with new thread tape and then soaped it all up. We have a leak just past the solenoid. So I will by some new fittings tomorrow as there is a little bit of thread damage on the fitting. I am going to replace the hose as well, the O ring looks a bit sad. Better safe than sorry.
Jeff
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Old 10-02-2013, 07:55   #20
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Re: Quick Gas Question.

The question of putting the solenoid valve before or after the regulator seems to have conflicting guidance information from device manufacturers. West Marines data presented earlier suggest it being after. Fireboy - Xantrex says the opposite. This is from their owner's manual:
"Electrical Solenoid Valve SV-1
A. LPG Installation The electrical solenoid valve should be mounted on the tank side of the LPG regulator, as close to the tank as practical. The tank itself should be mounted outside the cabin or crew quarters to avoid the possibility of gas accumulation due to a leak between the tank and solenoid valve.

B. CNG Installation Because of the higher tank pressure of CNG, the valve must be installed after the CNG regulator and as close to the regulator as possible. The tank itself should be mounted outside the cabin or crew quarters to avoid the possibility of gas accumulation due to a leak. "

Clearly the benefit to having it at the tank is that it then protects possible leaks in the line from the tank. And, the benefit of having it after the regulator is that it is not subjected to the higher pressure.

LPG vapor pressure is 100-200 psi, and CNG vapor pressure is 29003600 psi.
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Old 10-02-2013, 08:09   #21
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Re: Quick Gas Question.

Wire up the solenoid after your main battery switch so when you leave the boat it is automatically turned off.
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Old 10-02-2013, 08:30   #22
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Re: Quick Gas Question.

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Wire up the solenoid after your main battery switch so when you leave the boat it is automatically turned off.
^^+1^^.
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Old 10-02-2013, 15:25   #23
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Re: Quick Gas Question.

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Originally Posted by St. Elsewhere View Post
The question of putting the solenoid valve before or after the regulator seems to have conflicting guidance information from device manufacturers. West Marines data presented earlier suggest it being after. Fireboy - Xantrex says the opposite. This is from their owner's manual:
"Electrical Solenoid Valve SV-1
A. LPG Installation The electrical solenoid valve should be mounted on the tank side of the LPG regulator, as close to the tank as practical. The tank itself should be mounted outside the cabin or crew quarters to avoid the possibility of gas accumulation due to a leak between the tank and solenoid valve.

B. CNG Installation Because of the higher tank pressure of CNG, the valve must be installed after the CNG regulator and as close to the regulator as possible. The tank itself should be mounted outside the cabin or crew quarters to avoid the possibility of gas accumulation due to a leak. "

Clearly the benefit to having it at the tank is that it then protects possible leaks in the line from the tank. And, the benefit of having it after the regulator is that it is not subjected to the higher pressure.

LPG vapor pressure is 100-200 psi, and CNG vapor pressure is 29003600 psi.
Hmm. I will leave things as they are for now, I am using LPG, so the pressure is lower.
The power does turn off when the main switch is shut off but, currently I usually leave the boat with the power on for auto bilge pumps, right or wrong. I have a wind generator & small 60watt solar that charge 24/7 but as far as I am aware the wind gen mast be switched to the batteries that I want charged. By default, this turns the power on.
At the risk of opening a can of worms. What is the problem with leaving the power on while the boat is unattended?
Jeff
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Old 10-02-2013, 15:40   #24
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Re: Quick Gas Question.

Hi Ron.
I can see you.
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Old 10-02-2013, 15:40   #25
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Re: Quick Gas Question.

If you arrange it so that you limit what is on to the essential items, there should be no problem. If you are depending on wind or solar instead of shore power, you will need to be concerned about keeping the batteries charged.
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Old 10-02-2013, 15:57   #26
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Re: Quick Gas Question.

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We have a solenoid and DVK Monitoring system with a on demand switch which turns the solenoid on "open" and when switched off, cuts the power to the solenoid "closed".
Arrived back to the boat after 2 weeks away and found that the gas had all leaked out (very dangerous I know).
It turns out that the wife had turned the gas on instead of turning it off when we left the boat and the solenoid was left on purpose, on.

The worrying thing, and yes there are many. is that the solenoid was warm when I felt it, was also a bit loose which is where I think the leak occurred. Note the leak seems to have contained to the self draining locker.

Should the solenoid get warm?
I will attach a couple of pics of the set up.
Why did you leave the solenoid on "on purpose"?

JMO, but apart from defeating the purpose of having a solenoid valve, leaving it on for weeks at a time would seem likely to shorten the life of the solenoid. Waste of electricity too.

Anyway, it's normal for it to get a little warm if it's left on a for a long time. We only switch ours on when we're actually using the gas.
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Old 10-02-2013, 17:53   #27
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Re: Quick Gas Question.

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Why did you leave the solenoid on "on purpose"?

JMO, but apart from defeating the purpose of having a solenoid valve, leaving it on for weeks at a time would seem likely to shorten the life of the solenoid. Waste of electricity too.

Anyway, it's normal for it to get a little warm if it's left on a for a long time. We only switch ours on when we're actually using the gas.
Yes, Left it on on purpose.
Had some dum notion that the gas detector needed to be on 24/7.
Won't happen again and the gas will always be turned off when not in use.

St. Elsewhere
Yes I am not hooked up to shore power.
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Old 10-02-2013, 17:59   #28
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Re: Quick Gas Question.

I have my boat set up so that I can turn off the main power switch and almost everything in the boat is cut off, but there is a small auxiliary fuse box that is close to the batteries and fused individually for each circuit for things I want to be on 24/7. Those include the bilge pumps, the solar power, and the small exhaust fan for the composting toilet (which has been running 24/7 since 2007).
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Old 10-02-2013, 19:26   #29
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Re: Quick Gas Question.

ABYC says the valve can be installed on either the high or low pressure side.

1.7.3
The C-Brats :: - ABYC Propane Standards

The only thing you need to worry about is that the valve is rated for the pressure if you put it on the high pressure side.




Quote:
Originally Posted by St. Elsewhere View Post
The question of putting the solenoid valve before or after the regulator seems to have conflicting guidance information from device manufacturers. West Marines data presented earlier suggest it being after. Fireboy - Xantrex says the opposite. This is from their owner's manual:
"Electrical Solenoid Valve SV-1
A. LPG Installation The electrical solenoid valve should be mounted on the tank side of the LPG regulator, as close to the tank as practical. The tank itself should be mounted outside the cabin or crew quarters to avoid the possibility of gas accumulation due to a leak between the tank and solenoid valve.

B. CNG Installation Because of the higher tank pressure of CNG, the valve must be installed after the CNG regulator and as close to the regulator as possible. The tank itself should be mounted outside the cabin or crew quarters to avoid the possibility of gas accumulation due to a leak. "

Clearly the benefit to having it at the tank is that it then protects possible leaks in the line from the tank. And, the benefit of having it after the regulator is that it is not subjected to the higher pressure.

LPG vapor pressure is 100-200 psi, and CNG vapor pressure is 29003600 psi.
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Old 11-02-2013, 00:48   #30
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Re: Quick Gas Question.

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Originally Posted by Hoohaa View Post
Yes, Left it on on purpose.
Had some dum notion that the gas detector needed to be on 24/7.
Won't happen again and the gas will always be turned off when not in use.

St. Elsewhere
Yes I am not hooked up to shore power.
You can leave the gas detector on, but still have the solenoid valve shut. You just switch the "On Demand" switch off.

That's the normal situation on our boat, the GA286 is powered up, but the solenoid valve is shut. Although If I was leaving the boat, I'd power it off.

If it's not convenient to power it off at the distribution panel, there is an on/off switch on the unit.
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