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Old 21-04-2016, 10:17   #16
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Re: Question About Best Practice -- For Electricians

Another option (thou more complicated) would be to wire it thru a rotary switch or breaker interlock. Would require more work but it would allow for an very quick bypass when needed. At work we have done a number of these panels for people. Of course you would need a place to mount it and to run wires so it would be a lot more work. You could also use DPDT contactors (2NO 2NC) for this remotely mounted but it would be quite a bit more expensive. and a lot of work.
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Old 21-04-2016, 10:24   #17
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Re: Question About Best Practice -- For Electricians

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Originally Posted by unclemack View Post
News to me despite having been familiar with Anderson connectors and DC for years.
Just looked at their website and they show SAF-D-GRID 300V AC as "coming soon" - did I miss something?

The only Anderson connectors I've ever seen have contacts that wouldn't be considered safe for mains AC. Too easy to touch the contacts.
Didn't even know they made other types.
The PowerPole data sheets rate them for AC.

But if it's too easy to touch the contacts, that's another thing to consider.
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Old 21-04-2016, 10:28   #18
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Re: Question About Best Practice -- For Electricians

I suppose, if room permits, a pair of standard shore-power cable inline connectors would do it :-)
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Old 21-04-2016, 10:54   #19
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Re: Question About Best Practice -- For Electricians

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Originally Posted by wiekeith View Post
I experienced a melt-down (pics attached) at the mains plug/socket of my Victron 12/1600 charger/inverter, which resulted in exactly what you're trying to avoid - loss of shore-power until it's fixed... And my thinking was the same as yours - how to bypass it if ever it happens again.

As already mentioned by unclemac, inline connectors are a good option, but you'll probably need 20A connectors (my Victron will take up to 16A from shore-power). There are a few suppliers of these, such as those sold by www.tlc-direct.co.uk.

I've not actually modified mine yet as I'll be moving the shore-power inlet at the same time, so there's going to be a bit of glass-work involved, but I will be doing so soon.

Incidentally, the Victron on my boat was about 7 years old when it had the melt-down. The reseller tells me that he's seen it before, so it wasn't a one-off.

I'll let you know how I get on.
I had a complete dead failure of my Victron. I bypassed the Victron by inserting the shore power cable ends into the AC power output sockets, together with the AC power output cable ends.


20A? I need about 50 amps. My shore power is rated for 32 amps, which I rarely get, but sometimes. I generally take 18 amps out of a 16 amp rated pedestal.

But then the Victron can power boost that with up to 6kW, so the AC power output system has to be capable of handling all of the combined power.
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Old 21-04-2016, 11:04   #20
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Re: Question About Best Practice -- For Electricians

Just to clarify what others have said. Screw terminal strips, choc blocs, euro strips; whatever you want to call them come in two flavours.

The first and simplest is what the OP seems to have used where the screw simply bites into the cable. OK if it is done carefully and the wire matches the terminal size correctly.

The second type, and I think the only type approved by the ABYC, have a pressure plate (thin metal strip) inside that the screw presses down onto the wire thereby clamping it rather than mangling it. A much superior type of terminal block.

You can get both in Europe, you just have to check the specs carefully or of if shopping the old fashioned way just look inside for the pressure plate.

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Old 21-04-2016, 11:24   #21
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Re: Question About Best Practice -- For Electricians

Ring terms + a terminal strip. Borrow a bigger crimper. I'd fab a cover for the terminal strip, even inside where nobody can get to I don't expose AC.

The anderson powerpoles I've used would allow contact while they were not connected. Connected you could not touch the conductors.

Fuse the little wires. A little AGC fuse rated 250v would be fine. (Prob .1A or whatever the smallest you could get)
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Old 21-04-2016, 11:29   #22
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Re: Question About Best Practice -- For Electricians

Quote:
Originally Posted by Littlechay View Post
Just to clarify what others have said. Screw terminal strips, choc blocs, euro strips; whatever you want to call them come in two flavours.

The first and simplest is what the OP seems to have used where the screw simply bites into the cable. OK if it is done carefully and the wire matches the terminal size correctly.

The second type, and I think the only type approved by the ABYC, have a pressure plate (thin metal strip) inside that the screw presses down onto the wire thereby clamping it rather than mangling it. A much superior type of terminal block.

You can get both in Europe, you just have to check the specs carefully or of if shopping the old fashioned way just look inside for the pressure plate.

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OK, another hot tip. Thanks!
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Old 21-04-2016, 11:29   #23
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Re: Question About Best Practice -- For Electricians

Quote:
Originally Posted by wiekeith View Post
I suppose, if room permits, a pair of standard shore-power cable inline connectors would do it :-)
Unfortunately, room does not.
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Old 21-04-2016, 18:13   #24
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Re: Question About Best Practice -- For Electricians

The terminal strips are traditional, but maybe not the best solution.
A blue-sky suggestion: look into high amp powerpole. Very reliable, easy to install. Used for high amp by the ham radio community -- everywhere.

They can be easily disconnected and swapped, etc. Label carefully. Color codes are good.

Ah. I see it was previously mentioned. It's good!
But, I disagree. The connectors are safe. Just don't poke things into the open connector. If you want multiple connections, get a connector block.


You do not have to fuse the volt-meter. It's always very high impedence.
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Old 21-04-2016, 20:27   #25
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Re: Question About Best Practice -- For Electricians

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You do not have to fuse the volt-meter. It's always very high impedence.
I think the OP was worried about a fault in the wiring run causing a short and burning rather then the meter itself. Boats are a moving target and chafe can't be ruled out so fusing everything near the battery is not a bad idea.

I don't have the reference to hand but I think the ABYC in the US insists that everything connected to the battery be fused within a very short distance of the battery box unless the total run is very short.

Having said that my battery monitor (also Smartgauge) and the remote voltage sensing wires for my alternator controller are not fused.

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Old 21-04-2016, 20:56   #26
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Re: Question About Best Practice -- For Electricians

Ferrules and relatively inexpensive crimpers for them are available at Ferrules DirectFerrules - Wire Insulated Uninsulated Ferrule - Crimping Tools, Tool Calibration, European Specifications at Ferrules Direct. They are a very workmanlike way to handle this situation.

Every conductor on a boat, with the exception of the starting circuit, is required to be protected by a fuse or circuit breaker by ABYC Standards in the USA and the ISO standards in Europe.
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Old 21-04-2016, 21:13   #27
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Re: Question About Best Practice -- For Electricians

Quote:
Originally Posted by Littlechay View Post
I think the OP was worried about a fault in the wiring run causing a short and burning rather then the meter itself. Boats are a moving target and chafe can't be ruled out so fusing everything near the battery is not a bad idea.

I don't have the reference to hand but I think the ABYC in the US insists that everything connected to the battery be fused within a very short distance of the battery box unless the total run is very short.

Having said that my battery monitor (also Smartgauge) and the remote voltage sensing wires for my alternator controller are not fused.

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Voltmeters are installed in parallel to those circuits they are measuring. Those circuits are (or should be) already fused.

How does fusing a voltmeter connection do anything?

Serious question.
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Old 22-04-2016, 02:12   #28
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Re: Question About Best Practice -- For Electricians

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Voltmeters are installed in parallel to those circuits they are measuring. Those circuits are (or should be) already fused.

How does fusing a voltmeter connection do anything?

Serious question.
Serious answer. A battery monitor is not a voltmeter.

But to answer more specifically. Lets say you have a voltmeter on your instrument console. Lets say it monitors your battery voltage. Lets say that somebody installing a new coffee cup holder drives a screw into the cable supplying said voltmeter resulting in a dead short.

Wires got hot, red hot, burn their insulation off, set fire to the trunking then the woodwork, boat burns to water line.

Same scenario with a fuse near the battery.. screw goes in, fuse goes pop - no further damage.

Chris.
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Old 22-04-2016, 02:37   #29
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Re: Question About Best Practice -- For Electricians

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Having said that my battery monitor (also Smartgauge) and the remote voltage sensing wires for my alternator controller are not fused.

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Hmmmm I'm getting old. I did fuse it and I just checked it to make sure... I believe the fuse was supplied with the Smartgauge.

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Old 22-04-2016, 03:21   #30
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Re: Question About Best Practice -- For Electricians

Quote:
Originally Posted by Littlechay View Post
I think the OP was worried about a fault in the wiring run causing a short and burning rather then the meter itself. Boats are a moving target and chafe can't be ruled out so fusing everything near the battery is not a bad idea.

I don't have the reference to hand but I think the ABYC in the US insists that everything connected to the battery be fused within a very short distance of the battery box unless the total run is very short.

Having said that my battery monitor (also Smartgauge) and the remote voltage sensing wires for my alternator controller are not fused.
My Smartgauge sense wire is fused, as suggested in the instructions.

And all other connections to the battery (sense wire for charger/inverter, etc.).

But what we are talking about here are the very short, very fine wire for AC power voltage, not DC.
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