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Old 09-11-2012, 05:04   #46
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Re: PV market is shut off to China

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Originally Posted by capngeo View Post
Guys... Although everyone is so far behaving, politics is verboten here on CF. Please keep on the topic of PV dumping, or the thread will be locked.
Excuse me cap, but what else is there to this thread BUT politics
No-one is disputing the quality issue of Chinese panels, or the ability of the US to produce panels just as good.
The whole issue is protection of US big business.
At least, IMHO
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Old 09-11-2012, 05:39   #47
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Re: PV market is shut off to China

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Originally Posted by Blue Stocking View Post
Excuse me cap, but what else is there to this thread BUT politics
No-one is disputing the quality issue of Chinese panels, or the ability of the US to produce panels just as good.
The whole issue is protection of US big business.
At least, IMHO
Perhaps I'm wrong, but I'm leaning toward the OP meaning that the price and availability of PV arrays for cruisers EVERYWHERE will change due to these policies.
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Old 12-11-2012, 19:46   #48
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Re: PV market is shut off to China

zeehag - sorry to report that click and clack will be retiring at the end of this year. my favorite npr show...
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Old 13-11-2012, 05:50   #49
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Re: PV market is shut off to China

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zeehag - sorry to report that click and clack will be retiring at the end of this year. my favorite npr show...
So far the only meaningful post in this entire thread..

Great to hear they have not yet retired. Tom and Ray Magliozzi brightened up my days during hard times. Thank You.. Tappet Brothers.

How many other shows can claim a run of 35 years?
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Old 13-11-2012, 11:21   #50
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Re: PV market is shut off to China

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So far the only meaningful post in this entire thread..

Great to hear they have not yet retired. Tom and Ray Magliozzi brightened up my days during hard times. Thank You.. Tappet Brothers.

How many other shows can claim a run of 35 years?
Car talk is the only meaningful post!..with all that is going on in the world car talk is the last thing a sailor would need (I like click and clack too) I think sailing the world is about to change very fast and when we start calling spades, spades we will all have more important things to listen to..they(China) have now started looking at Europe and want to start a trade war about special types of stainless steel tubes ,it is only going to get worse and we as sailors will fill it and experiance it before someone that sits at home most of the time will...The world is about to change in dramatic ways and these trade wars are just the beginning....
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Old 13-11-2012, 13:23   #51
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Originally Posted by tropicalescape
Car talk is the only meaningful post!..with all that is going on in the world car talk is the last thing a sailor would need (I like click and clack too) I think sailing the world is about to change very fast and when we start calling spades, spades we will all have more important things to listen to..they(China) have now started looking at Europe and want to start a trade war about special types of stainless steel tubes ,it is only going to get worse and we as sailors will fill it and experiance it before someone that sits at home most of the time will...The world is about to change in dramatic ways and these trade wars are just the beginning....
Assuming your doomsday scenario is indeed prescient, I contend that Car Talk is the first thing we need. We may as well smile as we bend over to kiss our a$$e$ goodbye.

I hope I'm wrong, but I sense an underlying theme from you about China being the only big bad wolf in the world of global trade and commerce. I won't debate this notion on a sailing forum, but I will say that whatever evil anyone cares to blame China for, we as consumers are the ones who should really take the blame. If we wasted less, used less, made things last longer we would probably not be having this discussion. We, The Walmart Generation, have become too used to sucking off the teat of suppliers of cheap goods.

End of rant... I stand by my original post.. Click and Clack are far worthier.
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Old 13-11-2012, 14:42   #52
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Re: PV market is shut off to China

All I can say is it's about time. Will solar double in price...maybe look at it like the housing market. Prices are back to normal. The Chinese (who like sailing) have been told repeatedly to knock it off (manufacturing at a loss to put Western companies out of business). This is what they always do and finally or leaders have the balls to do something.
Now the scary part...we have borrowed way too much from the Chinese (who like sailing) and they can easily manipulate our currency. We should have done something with them and their devaluing of their of currency, maybe 15 years ago. So here we are. Now...are there ways around this?...You bet. The Chinese (who like sailing)will form American (who also like sailing) based solar companies in Taiwan and Korea (who sail in the AC). Will they be as cheap?...Probably not but the rest of the competitive industry will survive and it's a shot across the bow to China. I support it.
My panels were from an Oregon(where sailing can be really crappy) based company, manufacturing in Taiwan. But China (a country that makes lots and lots of sailing stuff) was out of that loop.
There...I edited this so sailing was part of all the countries involved...
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Old 13-11-2012, 15:06   #53
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Re: PV market is shut off to China

As Sumner said, this is how it boiled down for me. When I outfitted my Cal 40 with solar panels back in 1987, it was $5 per watt. I have seen them as low as a dollar a watt, but as Sumner pointed out, around $1.45 per watt which is still a lot better than the $5 per watt I paid.
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Old 13-11-2012, 16:04   #54
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Re: PV market is shut off to China

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Originally Posted by neelie View Post
Assuming your doomsday scenario is indeed prescient, I contend that Car Talk is the first thing we need. We may as well smile as we bend over to kiss our a$$e$ goodbye.

I hope I'm wrong, but I sense an underlying theme from you about China being the only big bad wolf in the world of global trade and commerce. I won't debate this notion on a sailing forum, but I will say that whatever evil anyone cares to blame China for, we as consumers are the ones who should really take the blame. If we wasted less, used less, made things last longer we would probably not be having this discussion. We, The Walmart Generation, have become too used to sucking off the teat of suppliers of cheap goods.

End of rant... I stand by my original post.. Click and Clack are far worthier.
I dont mean to present a doomsday scenerio feeling, and I dont think China is any worse or any better than any other state player in the global sailing arena...I do think its time they either embrace capitalism or denounce it because it is not fair when one has got to contend and compete with state owned enterprises...If all of China was like HK it could rule the economic world in time,but until then it will be viewed as a cheat and an unfair player in the solar panel world at least and this will have an effect on sailors the world over, maybe!
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Old 18-11-2012, 08:49   #55
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Re: PV market is shut off to China

Was told that the EU was going to place high tariffs on china(glass ware) from China into EU countries,has anyone got any info on this ...Heard that there was going to be a lot more products on the list such as small gas engines,marine and aviation electronics,wooden toys, and some fish products...sounds like the makings of a trade war if so,anyone in Europe have any real info on this ?...thanks
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Old 18-11-2012, 09:13   #56
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Re: PV market is shut off to China

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The making of solar cells is entirely in hands of the oil companies. Multinationals.
Of course they fire their political power if they feel attacked by unwanted competition. That's the whole issue nowadays why electric propulsion meet obstacles. Or solar cells to decrease your electric bills.
I'm surprised nobody commented on your post Mac. Do you know why the largest Nickel Metal Hydride cell available is a 10 a/hr D cell? When the GM EV-1 switched from lead acid to NiMh, the range almost doubled. After GM brought in and crushed all the EV-1s, Chevron Oil bought the rights to large size NiMh batteries to keep them off the open market.

Don't put anything past Big Oil. I used to work for them and they are ruthless.
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Old 18-11-2012, 09:22   #57
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Re: PV market is shut off to China

Well I plan to do a solar install on the boat this year. I have months and wasn't in any big hurray to get the panels thinking that if anything the price would be coming down more due to competition. But now I'm thinking maybe I should get them before I get jacked by a subsidy price structure.
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Old 18-11-2012, 09:27   #58
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Re: PV market is shut off to China

Don,

They have already gone up from $1.00 per watt to $1.45 per watt. Still a lot cheaper than the $5.00 per watt I paid 25 years ago.
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Old 18-11-2012, 09:40   #59
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Re: PV market is shut off to China

A fellow sailor works for a solar panel company here in Calif. They were headed for bankruptcy, but have now been bought for a song by a Chinese company. They had some new technology, so the Chinese will probably take than back to China, then shut the company down.
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Old 18-11-2012, 09:47   #60
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Re: PV market is shut off to China

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Was told that the EU was going to place high tariffs on china(glass ware) from China into EU countries,has anyone got any info on this ...Heard that there was going to be a lot more products on the list such as small gas engines,marine and aviation electronics,wooden toys, and some fish products...sounds like the makings of a trade war if so,anyone in Europe have any real info on this ?...thanks
Yes, this is really serious stuff for the English, after all you can't have a proper cup of tea in any old mug so we are introducing tariffs on imported china from China. That should sort them out and have them quaking in their boots

Brussels introduces 'crockery tax' on cheap items imported from China | Mail Online
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