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Old 19-06-2014, 18:53   #16
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pirate Re: Putting it All Together - Excederin Headache

Signing on to a good thread Dan. I have some of those same issues and would dearly love to make cheaper mistakes.

I'd add, editorially, it's a nice change to read stuff that applies to the unwashed rather the constant barrage from the checkbook sailors with their redundant plug and play BS. I don't want what I can't fix.
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Old 19-06-2014, 19:03   #17
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Re: Putting it All Together - Excederin Headache

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Originally Posted by socaldmax View Post
If you're interested in flexible panels you can put on your bimini, there was a recent thread about them. One guy found 100w panels for about $225 IIRC, and another guy found 180w flexible panels for about $300 or $400. I think the 100w panels only weighed about 6.5 lb, the 180w panels weighed only about 9 lbs or so. I think those are the lowest prices I've ever seen on flexible panels, especially that high power output.
Thanks - A single 100w won't fit where I want it. Flexible is more expensive than rigid and I would say are only justified if they "have" to be flexible, like on a curve roof or removable or something.

I can get 50w panels for like <$80. Listed at like 10lbs each. I have 2 X 15 up there now. The trick is to make the bimini more rigid and mount them not so much for a 20lb load but also for 40kt winds.

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Signing on to a good thread Dan. I have some of those same issues and would dearly love to make cheaper mistakes.

I'd add, editorially, it's a nice change to read stuff that applies to the unwashed rather the constant barrage from the checkbook sailors with their redundant plug and play BS. I don't want what I can't fix.
Welcome aboard - I promise to show and relate the good, the bad, the compromises, the ugly and the stupid so maybe we all learn as we go...

Also you guys will be my incentive to "do it right" and to keep moving forward.
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Old 19-06-2014, 19:31   #18
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Re: Putting it All Together - Excederin Headache

If you will only use the A/C in a marina and you want to save money consider a portable unit for under $400. Stow it while you sail. No installation costs. No running hose for the cooling water. They employ a 4" or so hose to vent out the hot air.
Look at compactappliance.com
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Old 19-06-2014, 19:54   #19
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Re: Putting it All Together - Excederin Headache

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If you will only use the A/C in a marina and you want to save money consider a portable unit for under $400. Stow it while you sail. No installation costs. No running hose for the cooling water. They employ a 4" or so hose to vent out the hot air.
Look at compactappliance.com
I have one like that in my bedroom at home, and it has a couple of drawbacks that I hadn't anticipated. Not only is it less efficient than other units that don't have to force the hot air through a hose, the hose that came with mine was not insulated, that was flaw #1, and I fixed it with an insulated A/C vent wrap over it.

The other flaw is that the unit recirculates the air in the room to cool it, but it also exhausts hot air out of the room. For every cubic foot of air that gets exhausted, another cubic foot of air must enter the room, or you'd draw a vacuum. So somewhere else in my house, hot air was being sucked in at the same rate the hot air from the condenser was being blown out. There are some models with 2 hoses to the outside, but they're pretty low efficiency, and a little on the loud side.

If one has a window large enough to put a small window unit in, that might be a more efficient, quieter solution. Just pull it out before casting off.
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Old 20-06-2014, 04:01   #20
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Re: Putting it All Together - Excederin Headache

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Originally Posted by socaldmax View Post
I have one like that in my bedroom at home, and it has a couple of drawbacks that I hadn't anticipated. Not only is it less efficient than other units that don't have to force the hot air through a hose, the hose that came with mine was not insulated, that was flaw #1, and I fixed it with an insulated A/C vent wrap over it.

The other flaw is that the unit recirculates the air in the room to cool it, but it also exhausts hot air out of the room. For every cubic foot of air that gets exhausted, another cubic foot of air must enter the room, or you'd draw a vacuum. So somewhere else in my house, hot air was being sucked in at the same rate the hot air from the condenser was being blown out. There are some models with 2 hoses to the outside, but they're pretty low efficiency, and a little on the loud side.

If one has a window large enough to put a small window unit in, that might be a more efficient, quieter solution. Just pull it out before casting off.
Hmmm... Thanks for the heads up - Hadn't really thought of the air replacement. In the store they are working great - but the store is already "cool" - I had thought of that.

I have considered the portable unit and just plopping it on the foredeck with a hose into the boat. The the condenser is outside (along with the evaporator. But then the condenser is in the "hot zone." <sigh>

the unit I am looking at advertises that it doesn't need to be vented and it also says it handle any condensation and doesn't need a drain.

I may install it with no vent and do some tests and see.

Over thinking again - LOL...

PS - I have seen people bodge a window unit right into the companionway - Fugly. I don't have a window or wall big enough to perma-mount and I really don't want anything obtrusive hanging outside the boat either.
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Old 20-06-2014, 06:35   #21
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Hmmm... the unit I am looking at advertises that it doesn't need to be vented and it also says it handle any condensation and doesn't need a drain.

I may install it with no vent and do some tests and see...
I have a Soleus 110v portable room a/c. About $250 USD. Tried venting thru transom cowl vents... a complete failure ... rigged the six foot long 8" hose and vented into cockpit with a screw-in deckplate mounted vertically. Modified to drain into the deepest part of bilge. Takes up beaucoup space but doesn't need be moved/removed to sail boat.
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Old 20-06-2014, 07:30   #22
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Re: Putting it All Together - Excederin Headache

My advice would be to slow down and try to simplify the issues,
and do things step at a time.

I would not even bother with the solar in this case.

Get a bigger battery bank and an inverter,
and get 120vac fridge and a/c, run off shore power,
but before that even,

Get the sleeping setup for a/c. I'd isolate the a/c to just where you sleep and try to insulate it to keep in the cold. Now you wake up refreshed and can move on to the next project.

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Old 20-06-2014, 11:29   #23
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Re: Putting it All Together - Excederin Headache

I might pick up a clamp on DC ammeter locally to start. As mentioned it is a nice way to see what is happening on the boat. But in your case I think the more important use would be to open the panel turn on what you would normally have on in a given situation and see what the draws are for your energy usage work sheet. You may find that a 15 amp charger will work fine for your needs especially after you switch to LED lights.
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Old 21-06-2014, 01:21   #24
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Re: Putting it All Together - Excederin Headache

I haven't tried to live in Singapore, in a marina, so this is a way outside opinion. The closest to the equator we've been is the Solomons (6 deg. south). There, I found one Hella fan that swept the bunk area adequate for sleeping, 'cause it dries the sweat that soon starts to appear. After a couple of months of it, you may not even need the fan! Seriously, left alone to cope, one's body does a pretty good job, most of the time.

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Old 21-06-2014, 02:26   #25
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Re: Putting it All Together - Excederin Headache

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I haven't tried to live in Singapore, in a marina, so this is a way outside opinion. The closest to the equator we've been is the Solomons (6 deg. south). There, I found one Hella fan that swept the bunk area adequate for sleeping, 'cause it dries the sweat that soon starts to appear. After a couple of months of it, you may not even need the fan! Seriously, left alone to cope, one's body does a pretty good job, most of the time.

Ann
On the hook when the Northeast or Southwest monsoon is set in it's possible on the hook. During the transitions with no wind miserable.

I did give it the college try in a marina once. 3 in the morning bathed in sweat tossing and turning. Got a room the next noon and slept the afternoon away...

We use two of these on the boat. They last 4-5 years.

Fans help but way humid here too.
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Old 28-06-2014, 07:13   #26
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Re: Putting it All Together - Excederin Headache

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Hi Ex-Cali,

Where might I also get an a/c for $400 please? thanks!

Bought the a/c Friday night. $388 at Giant ~US$310.

Figured I'd pick it up and take it to the boat for the fit up phase as I mock up the interior. Might also plug it in and see if it cools the boat. 7,000 BTUs...
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Old 28-06-2014, 17:56   #27
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Re: Putting it All Together - Excederin Headache

That's a good price! I'm going to gun for at least 10k btus just in case I ever have my whole tribe on board!

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Old 28-06-2014, 18:42   #28
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Re: Putting it All Together - Excederin Headache

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That's a good price! I'm going to gun for at least 10k btus just in case I ever have my whole tribe on board!

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The "next" price point up starts getting around $500.

As I was loading in the car one of the techs gave me a caution about it being a 50hz machine and "boats" run 60. If you are powering from a boat genny you may have to figure this one out but I am only planning shore power and Indonesia, Singapore and Malaysia all run 220-240V/50Hz so I am not worried.

I haven't read the tech literature but this one doesn't worry me much.

I plan to fire it up on the boat today if I get to it. I will let you know how it goes.

My next treasure hunt for the list is finding some low profile ducting - It is supposed to come with like 3 inch round dryer duct but there is a window fitting included that converts to an oval. I'd like to find oval duct ing and not rout that "ugly ductling" through the cabin.

I am going to check out the off-road SUV snorkel ducting you see on some off-roader wanna-bes here.
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Old 28-06-2014, 19:07   #29
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Re: Putting it All Together - Excederin Headache

I'll pop by and say hello! Was in the club getting battered by the mast yesterday...

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Old 28-06-2014, 19:46   #30
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Re: Putting it All Together - Excederin Headache

For your air conditioner consider a "mini split". I put 2 on my boat and have been very happy with them. Some are in the price range of the window units. There is a spray that air conditioning maintenance guys working on the beech hotels in FL use to spray on the outside units to control corrosion. I can't come up with the name right now ( it's heck getting old) but maybe someone else know what it is. When I put mine in I thought I would be replacing them in 2 to 3 years. 4+ years and still no rust. Whatever kind of air conditioner you get be sure to get a soft start compressor. A lot of marinas have rather soft electrical systems and voltage can really sag during compressor start.
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