Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 04-03-2013, 01:51   #1
Registered User
 
Barra's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Western Australia
Boat: between boats
Posts: 808
Proposed "Easy" LiFeP04 Installation

Hi

My situation is that I am trying to install LiFePo4 as house batteries but im doing it from the other side of the world from my boat ( Im in Australia and the boat is in France). Ive looked at the DIY approaches on the other posts but its just a bridge too far with not being there myself for a few months yet.

The current set up -

Generation - 400w solar, 2 x 80 amp hitachi alts off the engines (its a cat). Shorepower through a mastervolt combi inverter charger.

batteries - 2 x dead 270 amp AGMs for house and 2 lead acid starter batts

Proposed set up -

1. replace dead 540 amps of AGM with a single 300amp LiFePo4 from Smart battery (link - 12v 300ah lithium ion battery (or a similar "drop in replacement" battery if anyone has other suggestions?)

It includes the BMS (battery management) so it makes the remote install alot easier basically which makes my French sparky alot happier

2. No alt regulator yet so was looking at the Sterling alternator charger Sterling Power Products: Alternator to Battery Charger as its again a simple install, has a setting for LifePo4 batts (14.6 v charge and 14.4 float) and can charge the starter batts and the house seperately. (if i go with a normal alt regulator then ill probably need to charge the starter batt off the house which im not that keen on for redundancy)

So what do people think of this proposed set up? any issues with the sterling alt charger especially when used with LiFePo4?

Anyone with experience of the smart battery units?

I know itll cost a little more but its not over the top compared to the quoted AGMs and i need an alt regulator solution anyway so thats not really an added cost to me. In fact the sterling alt charge can manage 2 alts so its actually a bit cheaper.

Thanks
__________________

__________________
Barra is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2013, 02:12   #2
Senior Cruiser
 
Talbot's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Brighton, UK
Boat: Privilege 37
Posts: 3,579
Images: 32
Re: Proposed "Easy" LiFeP04 Installation

Quote:
Originally Posted by Barra View Post
My situation is that I am trying to install LiFePo4 as house batteries but im doing it from the other side of the world from my boat ( Im in Australia and the boat is in France). Ive looked at the DIY approaches on the other posts but its just a bridge too far with not being there myself for a few months yet...........
2. No alt regulator yet so was looking at the Sterling alternator charger Sterling Power Products: Alternator to Battery Charger
That power setting is much too high.

Sterling is working on the necessary equipment for a marine LiFePo set-up, and I am hoping that this will be available next winter.
__________________

__________________
"Be wary of strong drink. It can make you shoot at tax collectors - and miss."
Robert A Heinlein
Talbot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2013, 10:13   #3
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Tampa FL
Posts: 111
Re: Proposed "Easy" LiFeP04 Installation

I have to warn you about the company you linked in your post with smart battery, please be careful, get some references and check them before spending money... I will leave it at that...
__________________
electric1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2013, 13:01   #4
Senior Cruiser
 
DeepFrz's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Winnipeg
Boat: None at this time
Posts: 7,930
Re: Proposed "Easy" LiFeP04 Installation

That links to Lithium Ion batteries not LifePo4. I don't see anywhere that is talks about LifePo4. Stay away from Lithium Ion batteries. There is a big difference in chemistry.
__________________
The Blue Dot Campaign. This Changes Everything.
DeepFrz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2013, 13:18   #5
Moderator
 
Pete7's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Solent, England
Boat: Moody 31
Posts: 8,541
Images: 14
Re: Proposed "Easy" LiFeP04 Installation

Are you really thinking of buying a battery that costs $3000? plus import duty if you can't find them in Europe so an extra 20%.

Can I make a suggestion:

Rolls Sealed AGM 6V and 12V Deep Cycle Batteries
__________________
Moody 31 - April Lass
Pete7 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2013, 20:40   #6
Senior Cruiser
 
senormechanico's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2003
Boat: Dragonfly 1000 trimaran
Posts: 5,826
Re: Proposed "Easy" LiFeP04 Installation

After you've driven a Bentley, BMW or a Porsche, would you go back to a Yugo?
If you've sailed a (Oops, better not go there!)

Steve
__________________
Memento,homo, quia pulvis es, et in pulverem reverteris.
senormechanico is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2013, 22:41   #7
Registered User
 
Barra's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Western Australia
Boat: between boats
Posts: 808
Re: Proposed "Easy" LiFeP04 Installation

Quote:
Originally Posted by Talbot View Post
That power setting is much too high.

Sterling is working on the necessary equipment for a marine LiFePo set-up, and I am hoping that this will be available next winter.
Thanks Talbot not sure i quite follow you though?

ie do you mean the charge voltage is too high or the float maybe?

the smart battery specs state 14.6 charge and say nothing of float. agree per others experiences they are high volts especially for float. Can you enlighten me at all on why people are preferring a lower voltage (and therefore SOC)?

thanks mate
__________________
Barra is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2013, 22:42   #8
Registered User
 
Barra's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Western Australia
Boat: between boats
Posts: 808
Re: Proposed "Easy" LiFeP04 Installation

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeepFrz View Post
That links to Lithium Ion batteries not LifePo4. I don't see anywhere that is talks about LifePo4. Stay away from Lithium Ion batteries. There is a big difference in chemistry.
yes they are defo LiFePo4 batteries per the specs
__________________
Barra is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2013, 22:48   #9
Registered User
 
Barra's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Western Australia
Boat: between boats
Posts: 808
Re: Proposed "Easy" LiFeP04 Installation

Quote:
Originally Posted by electric1 View Post
I have to warn you about the company you linked in your post with smart battery, please be careful, get some references and check them before spending money... I will leave it at that...
Thnks for the tip much appreciated but can you maybe be a little more specific so i know what the issue is?

ie non delivery, not honouring warranty, not to spec product etc?

thanks
__________________
Barra is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2013, 22:54   #10
Registered User
 
Barra's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Western Australia
Boat: between boats
Posts: 808
Re: Proposed "Easy" LiFeP04 Installation

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete7 View Post
Are you really thinking of buying a battery that costs $3000? plus import duty if you can't find them in Europe so an extra 20%.

Can I make a suggestion:

Rolls Sealed AGM 6V and 12V Deep Cycle Batteries
Thanks for the link and its around what ive been quoted from my french sparky on AGMS too.

I need to go AGM (as opposed to Lead acid) as the batts are mounted in the saloon but to get the same usable amp hours as the 300 amp LIFePo4 i need 2 of the 290 ah batteries on your link so around $2100 vs the $3000 for LiFePo4.

Its a weight saving of 100kg between the 2 options which to me on a 42 foot cat means a fair bit so ill cop that difference as reasonable as long as the batteries stack up.....
__________________
Barra is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2013, 22:57   #11
Registered User
 
Barra's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Western Australia
Boat: between boats
Posts: 808
Re: Proposed "Easy" LiFeP04 Installation

Been onto Sterling re their alternator charger and they were pretty unhelpful though not sure why - just told me the BMS was all that mattered for LiFePo4. Surley an alternator charger or regulator that doesnt "fight" the BMS is the way to go I would have thought?

Still waiting on the smart battery people to come back to me on charge profiles etc so thats not a great sign on the service side at least...
__________________
Barra is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2013, 23:53   #12
Marine Service Provider

Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 1,205
Re: Proposed "Easy" LiFeP04 Installation

Quote:
Originally Posted by Barra View Post
Been onto Sterling re their alternator charger and they were pretty unhelpful though not sure why - just told me the BMS was all that mattered for LiFePo4. Surley an alternator charger or regulator that doesnt "fight" the BMS is the way to go I would have thought?

Still waiting on the smart battery people to come back to me on charge profiles etc so thats not a great sign on the service side at least...
Just count all added expenses in the column of early adopter. That way when you look back.

You can justify it as a cost of doing business, being the Pioneer that you are.

If ya get lucky, with no problems, then you can boast a gamble well paid.

Lloyd
__________________
FlyingCloud1937 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-2013, 03:04   #13
Senior Cruiser
 
Talbot's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Brighton, UK
Boat: Privilege 37
Posts: 3,579
Images: 32
Re: Proposed "Easy" LiFeP04 Installation

Quote:
Originally Posted by Barra View Post
Thanks Talbot not sure i quite follow you though?

ie do you mean the charge voltage is too high or the float maybe?

the smart battery specs state 14.6 charge and say nothing of float. agree per others experiences they are high volts especially for float. Can you enlighten me at all on why people are preferring a lower voltage (and therefore SOC)?

thanks mate
I will admit that I am early in my own investigation for lithium, but most lithum have a max volt rating which is close to the standard setting of the alternator regulator (i.e. 14.6 for yours) but that regulator is normally plus or minus abt 0.5v (dependent on manufacturer) Thus you can exceed the lithium max voltage.
It is also recognised that charging at max voltage capacity reduces the life of the lithium.
__________________
"Be wary of strong drink. It can make you shoot at tax collectors - and miss."
Robert A Heinlein
Talbot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2013, 07:15   #14
Registered User
 
neelie's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: On the boat
Boat: Valiant 50
Posts: 514
I'm almost in the same boat as you. The big complication for me is, in the event of a Hugh Voltage signal from one cell, how do you gracefully disconnect your charge source(s) from the battery.

You should not simply disconnect the battery from a charge source while that source is producing power.

Plus, you need to think how you want your relays to behave after they have opened. I.e - manual reset? Or self reset when symptom goes away?
__________________
The light at the end of the tunnel are no longer the headlights of the oncoming train......yippee
neelie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2013, 08:40   #15
Moderator
 
Pete7's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Solent, England
Boat: Moody 31
Posts: 8,541
Images: 14
Re: Proposed "Easy" LiFeP04 Installation

Quote:
Originally Posted by Barra View Post
and they were pretty unhelpful though not sure why - ..
Ah, yes Charles is famous for that. Good products at sensible prices but spending hours discussing products with customers isn't a strong point, but then you aren't paying for glossy advertising, customer relation staff etc.....

Pete
__________________

__________________
Moody 31 - April Lass
Pete7 is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
installation

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 06:30.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.