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Old 02-12-2016, 08:41   #1
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PHASOR NEXT GEN

I am looking at both Phasor and Next Gen 4.5 kw 2 cylinder genset. Seems that many Phasor and Next Gen are nearly identical however in this case both use Kaboda engines however the Phasor runs at 1800 rpm and the Next Gen at 2800.

Seems 1800 has to be quieter however what do I know. Not much.

Anyone who has experience please let me know your thoughts?


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Old 07-12-2016, 08:20   #2
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Re: PHASOR NEXT GEN

I'm also shopping the two as well.

The Phasor is a 4.5kw ignition isolated design which uses a Coliseum Permanent Magnet generator head that is directly driven by a 2 cylinder Kubota Z602 at 1800rpm. weights 294lbs

The NextGen is a 5.5kw Markon BL105 Capacitor controlled generator head driven by belt at 3600rpm by a 2 cylinder Kubota Z482 running at 2800rpm(rpm increased thru use of different size pulleys) weights 230lbs


Both units are a very simple design and use off the shelf components almost everywhere except for the mixing elbows and a few other random parts which will be great for long time service and repair.
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Old 07-12-2016, 09:06   #3
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Re: PHASOR NEXT GEN

I have the baby Nexgen, the single cylinder 3.5 KW.
If it ran at 1800 engine RPM, I believe it would be quieter, of course it would take a bigger engine to produce the same power at lower RPM.
The sound shield is significant with mine sound reduction wise, does the Phasor have a sound shield?
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Old 07-12-2016, 09:28   #4
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Re: PHASOR NEXT GEN

The Phasor 4.5kw enclosure I am aware of.

26 x 20 x 24.2 (in.)
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Old 07-12-2016, 09:35   #5
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Re: PHASOR NEXT GEN

I ran a Phasor for a couple of seasons, and I was impressed with its design and maintainability. The only problem I had with it was the oil pressure switch started to leak, and that was fixed with a quick trip to Napa.
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Old 08-12-2016, 04:46   #6
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Re: PHASOR NEXT GEN

Greetings and welcome aboard the CF, Terbonium.
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Old 08-12-2016, 07:54   #7
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Re: PHASOR NEXT GEN

Thanks..

Doing all the research to start outfitting our new FP Lucia 40 that arrives July 2017.
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Old 08-12-2016, 09:01   #8
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Re: PHASOR NEXT GEN

Weight and size is why I went with a Nexgen, if I could have, I would have gone with an 1800 RPM model, likely a Northern Lights.
Surely a lower RPM motor will make less noise and last longer than a higher RPM one?
I don't understand why people put a 5KW and larger generator on a boat that has 30 amp power though. 30 X 120 = 3600, so 3.6 KW Is all a 30 amp boat can handle.
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Old 08-12-2016, 09:24   #9
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Re: PHASOR NEXT GEN

Quote:
Originally Posted by a64pilot View Post
Weight and size is why I went with a Nexgen, if I could have, I would have gone with an 1800 RPM model, likely a Northern Lights.
Surely a lower RPM motor will make less noise and last longer than a higher RPM one?
I don't understand why people put a 5KW and larger generator on a boat that has 30 amp power though. 30 X 120 = 3600, so 3.6 KW Is all a 30 amp boat can handle.
People size generators according to peak loads, but then they end up operating them most of the time at a fraction of their maximum power, which is very harmful for a constant-speed engine.

It makes far more sense to use inverters with power boost, to cover the short-term maximum loads with inverted power out of the batteries, and size the generator closer to average loads.

Or if you go to LiFePo batteries, just run everything off the batts, and use a massive charger which allows you to use the generator for a short period at near maximum power.


I have a 6.5kW low speed heavy duty generator, which makes 30 amps of 230v power, almost twice the shore power capacity of 16 amps.

But just because the shore power is sized that way, doesn't mean that 16 amps is "all the boat can handle". I can use all 6.5kW pretty easily, especially if the battery charger is working full blast, absorbing 2.5kW just by itself.
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Old 08-12-2016, 09:49   #10
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Re: PHASOR NEXT GEN

Dockhead how many amps does your charger put out?

Why not skip the genset and charger and recharge from a couple of 150 - 200 amp alternators on the main engine if you are going to run everything from the inverter?

Quote:
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It makes far more sense to use inverters with power boost, to cover the short-term maximum loads with inverted power out of the batteries, and size the generator closer to average loads.

Or if you go to LiFePo batteries, just run everything off the batts, and use a massive charger which allows you to use the generator for a short period at near maximum power.

I have a 6.5kW low speed heavy duty generator, which makes 30 amps of 230v power, almost twice the shore power capacity of 16 amps.

But just because the shore power is sized that way, doesn't mean that 16 amps is "all the boat can handle". I can use all 6.5kW pretty easily, especially if the battery charger is working full blast, absorbing 2.5kW just by itself.
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Old 08-12-2016, 09:57   #11
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Re: PHASOR NEXT GEN

If your shorepower capacity is 16 amps and you use more than that on generator, then you have upgraded the electrical capacity, and it's no longer a 16 amp capacity boat.
I considered a 5.5 KW (120 VAC) generator myself, but to use it I would have to increase the panels capacity from 30 amps to 50 amp and I just didn't want to do that much work.

Neighbor had a Lagoon 38 Cat, it had twin 30 amp shorepower cords, and I think an over 11 KW generator?
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Old 08-12-2016, 10:13   #12
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Re: PHASOR NEXT GEN

Quote:
Originally Posted by a64pilot View Post
If your shorepower capacity is 16 amps and you use more than that on generator, then you have upgraded the electrical capacity, and it's no longer a 16 amp capacity boat.
I considered a 5.5 KW (120 VAC) generator myself, but to use it I would have to increase the panels capacity from 30 amps to 50 amp and I just didn't want to do that much work.

Neighbor had a Lagoon 38 Cat, it had twin 30 amp shorepower cords, and I think an over 11 KW generator?
My shorepower is 16 amps but my RCD/master breaker is 32 amps. Boat was built like that in the original build and has not been upgraded.

It may be that some boats have overall capacity = shore power capacity, but this is by no means inevitable.
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Old 08-12-2016, 10:26   #13
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Re: PHASOR NEXT GEN

Quote:
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It may be that some boats have overall capacity = shore power capacity, but this is by no means inevitable.

I think in US boats its common for the whole thing to be rated only for the shorepower capacity. To take my boat to 50 amps I may have been able to get by by only increasing the wiring size from the panel to the shorepower plug and changing my 30 amp breaker to a 50 amp.
But it may also be that my whole panel, buss bars and all are only good for 30 amp.
I think that is the case, that I would have needed a whole new panel.
I decided to go with the cheaper, lighter, more fuel stingy generator and just power manage the boat and not turn everything on at once.

Another dock mate has a Hunter Passage 42, it has the large, upgraded generator however big that is I don't know, but he swears that the generator burn more fuel than the propulsion engine at a normal cruise. Hard to believe, but maybe?
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Old 08-12-2016, 10:33   #14
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Re: PHASOR NEXT GEN

Quote:
Originally Posted by a64pilot View Post
I think in US boats its common for the whole thing to be rated only for the shorepower capacity. To take my boat to 50 amps I may have been able to get by by only increasing the wiring size from the panel to the shorepower plug and changing my 30 amp breaker to a 50 amp.
But it may also be that my whole panel, buss bars and all are only good for 30 amp.
I think that is the case, that I would have needed a whole new panel.
I decided to go with the cheaper, lighter, more fuel stingy generator and just power manage the boat and not turn everything on at once.
. . .
This is something worth thinking about, for people with charger/inverters with power boost.

Shore power is run through the inverter/charger, and the combined output can be equal to the total shore power plus total capacity of the inverter. If you are feeding a panel which has only capacity of the shore power, you can have a problem.

I was very careful sizing everything when I did this installation. My panel cannot in fact handle my whole generator output plus inverter, so I am careful to switch OFF the power boost when using the generator.
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Old 14-07-2017, 10:27   #15
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Re: PHASOR NEXT GEN

I am looking at a new generator and have been considering the nextgen 5.5 and the Phasor 4.5. I think either will meet my capacity and space requirements. I have found lots of data on the nextgen and have concerns about a number of items, but especially about its primitive voltage control and wave form. In another thread it was noted that motors drawing 14 amps on shore power were drawing 17 on the nextgen. This is probably indicative of poor wave form and rms voltage control caused by the simple capacitor based system. Drawing more amps through a motor is deleterious to longevity in electric motors. I also talked to the Next gen factory and they admitted that inverter/chargers often had a problem with the nextgen and some would not pass the power through their built in transfer switch when using the charging function of the inverter/charger. Apparently the simple minded voltage control system gets messed up by the charger.

The Phasor looks promising but there is not nearly as much information available. They have what they call a "single series circuit control system" , what ever that means. What I would like to know is if it has the same issues as the Nextgen. I'm not sure if there are just so many more Nextgens out there, that there is more information available or if the Phasors just don't have these issues so they never get brought up in internet forums. Is there anyone out there with experience and technical experience with the Phasor that can share or point me to the information I need?

I also looked at Norpro, but they have dropped their 2 cylinder units and the three cylinder units are just too big, both physically and capacity wise.

Don't suggest I look at ONAN because I already have on of those and it has design issues that make it totally undependable and I will not own another one.

There just aren't that many 5KW range units on the market anymore.
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