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Old 11-04-2019, 07:38   #1
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Paneltronics circuit breakers

I am going to be updating the 120V AC on my paneltronics AC/DC panel.

How do people like Paneltronics Magnetic Circuit breakers?

I see A frame and C frame magnetic breakers. Is there a difference?

20A breaker says trips at 20.3A, and it says FL Amps 15. I am assuming it stands for Flow Amps.

I bought 250' spool of 12/2 Anchor marine grade wire and wanted to put 20A beakers. 1 for stove top, 1 for convection oven, 1 for 120V AC port side outlets, and 1 for 120V AC starboard side outlets, and use the 250' to run the wire.

If this "15A flow" breaker is frequently loaded at say 18 or 19A, so not enough to trip the breaker is this an issue? Say wife uses a blow dryer and hair straightener every morning before going to work for 30 minutes... (I know, what some of you may be thinking...me too, but oh well, we live on the boat on the dock, and i gotta try to accommodate land based habits, at least while at the dock)
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Old 11-04-2019, 08:55   #2
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Re: Paneltronics circuit breakers

That is a 15a breaker.

I use blue seas. Probably both made by carlington.
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Old 11-04-2019, 10:43   #3
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Re: Paneltronics circuit breakers

I guess picture is wrong.

https://www.wholesalemarine.com/pane...SABEgJM-_D_BwE
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Old 11-04-2019, 11:38   #4
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Re: Paneltronics circuit breakers

The breakers won't be your problem. The use however of the 12/2 wire is in appropriate, it should be 12/3 wire. Not only are you missing the third green wire but also the 12.2 will be color coded differently either red/black or red/yellow.
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Old 11-04-2019, 12:16   #5
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Re: Paneltronics circuit breakers

"FL" refers to Full Load Amps.
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Old 11-04-2019, 12:50   #6
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Re: Paneltronics circuit breakers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Outlaw7 View Post
The breakers won't be your problem. The use however of the 12/2 wire is in appropriate, it should be 12/3 wire. Not only are you missing the third green wire but also the 12.2 will be color coded differently either red/black or red/yellow.
not worried about color coding but yeah 12/2 romax for residential AC is 3 wires where Marine Anchor 12/2 is just red and black. That is a problem.
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Old 12-04-2019, 02:59   #7
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Re: Paneltronics circuit breakers

Quote:
Originally Posted by phorvati View Post
not worried about color coding but yeah 12/2 romax for residential AC is 3 wires where Marine Anchor 12/2 is just red and black. That is a problem.
No problem:
Ancor (& other "marine" wire suppliers) also sells “Triplex” cables, with black, green and white (USA), OR blue, brown, and green with yellow stripe conductors (Euro).
Multi-Conductor | Ancor

Triplex Cable, 12/3 AWG (3 x 3mm²), Round - 250ft | Ancor
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Old 12-04-2019, 04:22   #8
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Paneltronics circuit breakers

Quote:
Originally Posted by phorvati View Post
not worried about color coding but yeah 12/2 romax for residential AC is 3 wires where Marine Anchor 12/2 is just red and black. That is a problem.


I think you’ve purchased the wrong spool of wire. You’ve got this


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When what you need is this


Name:   IMG_2386.jpg
Views: 126
Size:  5.7 KB
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Old 12-04-2019, 04:37   #9
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Re: Paneltronics circuit breakers

Quote:
Originally Posted by phorvati View Post
I am going to be updating the 120V AC on my paneltronics AC/DC panel.

How do people like Paneltronics Magnetic Circuit breakers?

I see A frame and C frame magnetic breakers. Is there a difference?

20A breaker says trips at 20.3A, and it says FL Amps 15. I am assuming it stands for Flow Amps.

I bought 250' spool of 12/2 Anchor marine grade wire and wanted to put 20A beakers. 1 for stove top, 1 for convection oven, 1 for 120V AC port side outlets, and 1 for 120V AC starboard side outlets, and use the 250' to run the wire.

If this "15A flow" breaker is frequently loaded at say 18 or 19A, so not enough to trip the breaker is this an issue? Say wife uses a blow dryer and hair straightener every morning before going to work for 30 minutes... (I know, what some of you may be thinking...me too, but oh well, we live on the boat on the dock, and i gotta try to accommodate land based habits, at least while at the dock)
I bet that these breakers have TWO trigger mechanisms:
a) a magnetic mechanism that trips quickly (say 80 miliseconds) with significant overloads (say 1,33x nominal or 20 amps).

b) a hydraulic/thermal mechanism that trips after a sustained (full seconds) nominal overload (over 15 amps).

The former will protect against a short circuit (hot touching neutral) The latter is what will be activated by a hair dryer over 1800V.
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Old 12-04-2019, 04:57   #10
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Re: Paneltronics circuit breakers

That is a 15A breaker made by Sensata-airpax. The vendor has mid-categorized it. If you search for the manufacturer’s part number upg6-25675-3 you will find a lot of info.
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Old 12-04-2019, 05:34   #11
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Re: Paneltronics circuit breakers

If you continue to max out a breaker, it seems that over time it will begin to nuisance trip, that is it seems to over time wear out if you will and begin to trip at lower power.

However, even with a 50 amp service, your not running many 20 amp circuits, two is all.
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Old 12-04-2019, 05:59   #12
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Re: Paneltronics circuit breakers

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Originally Posted by a64pilot View Post
If you continue to max out a breaker, it seems that over time it will begin to nuisance trip, that is it seems to over time wear out if you will and begin to trip at lower power.

However, even with a 50 amp service, your not running many 20 amp circuits, two is all.
You can have more than 50A worth of individual breakers on a 50A mains. Look at residential wiring, my 100A AC mains service has closer to 200A worth of breakers. They are not all assumed to be maxed out. And if they did 50A mains would trip.



I did get the black green white triplex tinned marine wire last night. I'll keep the other one for DC updates.
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Old 12-04-2019, 08:51   #13
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Paneltronics circuit breakers

Quote:
Originally Posted by phorvati View Post
You can have more than 50A worth of individual breakers on a 50A mains. Look at residential wiring, my 100A AC mains service has closer to 200A worth of breakers. They are not all assumed to be maxed out. And if they did 50A mains would trip.



I did get the black green white triplex tinned marine wire last night. I'll keep the other one for DC updates.


Of course you can, we all do, however you then have to power manage if you will, as in watch how many things are on at the same time.
Very few residential devices pull more than 15 amps, that seems to be the standard, most homes are wired so that 15 amps per receptacle circuit is the limit, few are wired for 20 amps.
Of course if you go ahead with 20 amp circuits, be sure the receptacles can handle 20 amps, the better ones can, but most cannot, they max at 15.
It’s the water heater that I usually forget about.
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Old 12-04-2019, 09:21   #14
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Re: Paneltronics circuit breakers

Typical circuit breakers are only rated for 80% of their nameplate rating, under continuous loading.
Section 210.20(A) of the NEC basically says that a circuit breaker for a branch circuit must be rated such that it can handle the noncontinuous load, plus 125% of the continuous load. A continuous load is one where the maximum current is expected to continue for 3 hours or more. In other words, the breaker needs an extra 25% capacity of the continuous load for headroom. Thus the derating to 80%.
When the circuit breaker is listed for operation at 100% of its rating, the additional 25% requirement goes away. Instead, the device simply has to be able to handle the sum of the continuous load and the noncontinuous load.
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Old 12-04-2019, 11:32   #15
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Re: Paneltronics circuit breakers

I am glad we are having this discussion, it shed some light into how different AC marine wiring from residential wiring is. To me 12AWG Is the norm and 20A outlets and 20A breakers. Extra price is negligible comparison to extra safety, especially if you have rental units. That's what made me think to use 20A on the boat as well.
Typical residential say 100A service where i live (US) comes on 2 phases. Two hot wires each rated for 100A so you can have 200A combined draw before maxing 100A breaker. So 200A worth of breakers is actually not more than 100A service if they are evenly distributed, left hand and right hand side of the 2 phase panel.


It does not look like that's the case at the dock. 50A 125V is a single phase service.
But form what i read, the sum is not relevant. And that makes sense since Breaker protects the wire and outlet. I am still wondering if these set of breakers are typical or out of the norm.



15A Reverse cycle Marine Air

20A water heater

15A refrigeration
15A port side AC outlets
15A Starboard side AC outlets

20A breaker for Induction stove (1800W)
15A breaker for Convection oven (1650W)
5A Battery charger


I was initially going to do 20A port and 20A starboard outlets but i am realizing that 15A breakers would be fine.
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