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Old 20-01-2012, 16:02   #46
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Re: Optimal Charging Regimen - Wet Cells

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Originally Posted by akio.kanemoto View Post
Bizarre... this is what I have in the manual (the heading is desulfation, there is no heading for equalization):

Desulfation Mode Defined (Flooded Lead Acid Only) - battery switch position - 8
Sulfation may cause early battery failure; to reduce sulfation ProMariner has incorporated a
desulfation mode to extend battery life. The desulfation mode should not be used more than 4 times
a year. To use the desulfation mode turn off AC power, isolate the batteries from all equipment/
electronics on board. If this mode is used without disconnecting accessories the potential for
accessory damage is high. Next remove the end cap located on the DC side of the charger. With
the AC power off, change the rotary switch to position 8. After the adjustment replace the DC
cover and turn the charger on. The charger will go into a Flooded Lead Acid charge cycle followed
by the desulfation mode for 4 hours and then shut off. After this is complete turn off AC power.
Remove the DC terminal end cap and reset the rotary switch back into the original setting, reinstall
the DC cover and turn on the AC power. Charger will now be in normal operating mode.
I don't think you have the manual for the ProNautic P. It sounds like the older ProNautic C series manual..
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Old 20-01-2012, 16:13   #47
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Re: Optimal Charging Regimen - Wet Cells

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Originally Posted by Maine Sail View Post
I don't think you have the manual for the ProNautic P. It sounds like the older ProNautic C series manual..
"C3 Series"? I thought this was the current version...

Will dig around and see what I find...

Having said that I would need to stack 2 and have current limiting if required, so if it doesn't do that - then it's the ChargeMaster..
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Old 20-01-2012, 16:17   #48
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Re: Optimal Charging Regimen - Wet Cells

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Originally Posted by akio.kanemoto View Post
"C3 Series"? I thought this was the current version...

Will dig around and see what I find...

Having said that I would need to stack 2 and have current limiting if required, so if it doesn't do that - then it's the ChargeMaster..

ProMariner ProNautic P 1260

Sterling Pro Charge Ultra 1260


Basically the same chargers. Joint design venture between ProMariner and Sterling Power.
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Old 20-01-2012, 16:19   #49
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Re: Optimal Charging Regimen - Wet Cells

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Originally Posted by Maine Sail View Post
ProMariner ProNautic P 1260

Sterling Pro Charge Ultra 1260


Basically the same chargers. Joint design venture between ProMariner and Sterling Power.
Thanks for that - reading manual now!
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Old 20-01-2012, 16:32   #50
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Re: Optimal Charging Regimen - Wet Cells

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Originally Posted by akio.kanemoto View Post
Thanks for that - reading manual now!
OK, just finished the manual - looks like a very nice unit, easy to use, nice interface. Nice and compact too! Just missing output capacity - only 60A... and I can't find any stacking function. (Westmarine sells a 120A stacked C3 version - but it looks like this is it.. none in the P series.. but then again at that price, I think a ChargeMaster is a better buy?)

Equalization is easy on the new P's too... in fact, easier than the ChargeMaster - which requires opening the front panel and fiddling a dip switch.

Any other suggestions - or am I being too picky regarding having to fiddle the dip switch on the chargemaster?
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Old 20-01-2012, 16:47   #51
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Re: Optimal Charging Regimen - Wet Cells

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Originally Posted by Maine Sail View Post
Ditto!!!!!!


I think Brian / Mitempo, has to be the only installer I know of who still likes X...? I do still install the Echo's but that's about it.. They've offensively priced themselves out of the battery monitor market, a market they virtually created, well Cruising Equipment/Heart Interface created it then X bought them and destroyed it by pricing their product at a HUGE premium over Victron, who is now eating their lunch on battery monitors.........
But their chargers are well priced.

I would prefer more alternatives locally than there are currently. Whatever I or anyone else thinks of Xantrex they have a huge market share in the 40 amp and under size. When a customer needs a charger they want one available easily with local service if necessary. Sterling could be purchased online but who might fix one locally under warranty if necessary? The Xantrex that had a fan problem was replaced same day between Xantrex - who answered the phone promptly and gave me a return authorization and the local dealer who I have a good relationship with. I have never called tech support so don't have an opinion on that.

I don't love Xantrex products and would certainly look at options that are in stock locally with local warranty service.

Maine

What is wrong with the Echo manual - a product I install often?
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Old 11-02-2012, 00:21   #52
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Re: Optimal Charging Regimen - Wet Cells

Greetings Folks,

Just thought I'd report back.

So the Chargemaster 12/100 is in. It runs very happily off the Honda EU20i. It happily puts out 102A and the Honda isn't even struggling.

In eco mode, as the amp output decreases, the Honda's rpms decrease as well, saving fuel.

So all good, thank you very muchly!

The only thing I need to do now is to work out how to equalize the batteries without using the tiny little damned DIP switch underneath the unit.

Any ideas here? Can I set the Absorption voltage to 15.5V and try that? (How do I limit current just in Abs phase?)

Or is there a more clever method?

Thanks!
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Old 11-02-2012, 05:33   #53
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Re: Optimal Charging Regimen - Wet Cells

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The only thing I need to do now is to work out how to equalize the batteries without using the tiny little damned DIP switch underneath the unit.
The reason most charger manufacturers make initialization of the process of battery equalization more than a one step process ("Press and hold the little red button for 16 seconds") is there is a lot more to equalizing LA batteries than meets the eye and, quite frankly, most of today's boat owners do not want to go through the time and hassle of properly equalizing. Without some, not much, attention to detail, batteries can be ruined and some equipment may be damaged which all leads to liability exposure for the charger manufacturers. So they make it just a bit inconvenient to launch equalization.

Why do you think that you need to use this feature? Your later posts indicate that you are going to be equalizing your bank often.

Charlie
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Old 11-02-2012, 05:40   #54
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There should be no need to equalise batteries that are being well maintained. In fact check your battery specs, some manufacturer don't recommend it. I have never done it nor needed it.

Dave
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Old 11-02-2012, 05:50   #55
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Re: Optimal Charging Regimen - Wet Cells

Dave: +1

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Old 11-02-2012, 16:43   #56
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Re: Optimal Charging Regimen - Wet Cells

OK, so the thing is that while I will be getting the batteries up to full now and then, it definitely won't be super-regular - I don't think I can regularly listed to the generator banging away for 4-5 hours..

So equalization is definitely on the cards, and in fact, US Battery (my batt manufacturer) recommends it.

If you look at their charging recommendations, they recommend up to 14.7 bulk charge, up to 14.7 absorption.. and then roughly 15.5V as a finish charge for 2-4 hours EVERY CYCLE.

http://www.usbattery.com/usb_images/...ion_2011_2.pdf

The issue is about limiting current during these phases, especially the equalization - what's the best way of achieving these settings with the ChargeMaster? (I tried setting the Float settings to 15.5V, but the charger was supplying around 50A, which is 7.5% of the C/20 capacity... but I understand that it should be a max of 3% or so?

Any thoughts here?
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Old 11-02-2012, 17:47   #57
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Re: Optimal Charging Regimen - Wet Cells

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OK, so the thing is that while I will be getting the batteries up to full now and then, it definitely won't be super-regular - I don't think I can regularly listed to the generator banging away for 4-5 hours..

So equalization is definitely on the cards, and in fact, US Battery (my batt manufacturer) recommends it.
Tread carefully here, equalization can cause shedding of active material, its in my experience rarely needed unless you are regular leaving batteries in a significantly discharged state for extended periods. ( and then you recharge loosing capacity due to sulphation).

Note that equalization should be only performed on a fully charged battery, its not a way of bringing a battery up to full. Also you'll need to disconnect all electronics and in fact every consumer when equalising.

Also you will need to monitor water use and outgassing. Its not a push and forget, theres a reason many charger manufacturers make in "hard" to activate.

I think you've mis-understood its uses.

dave
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Old 11-02-2012, 17:49   #58
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Re: Optimal Charging Regimen - Wet Cells

The problem with US Battery's charging recommendations is that they are geared to shore-based situations (like solar) and not to boats. They are totally impractical for boats, IMHO. Like, who's going to take 7 hours to charge a battery during the bulk and absorption phases? And, are you really going to charge an AGM battery at only 10% of its C/20 rate? Then why buy AGM batteries?

I would NOT equalize the batteries with every cycle.

I would NOT worry about current during the periodic but infrequent equalization treatments....the batteries are going to accept what they're going to accept and that will be totally limited by the voltage applied.

While yours may be showing 50A at the beginning of a 15.5VDC applied charge, that will quickly decrease.

Charge 'em at 14.7-14.8VDC bulk and absorption phases. Float 'em at 13.6-13.8VDC.

Only equalize them infrequently and when you have reason to believe they need it. They'll last a long time. IMHO, Bill
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Old 11-02-2012, 17:51   #59
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Re: Optimal Charging Regimen - Wet Cells

I think you read it wrong. They recommend equalization

"for 1 to 3 hours after normal charge cycle (REPEAT EVERY 30 DAYS)"

In the graphs shown they state "equalization after every 30 cycles"

I doubt you will be totally cycling them once each day - using then to 50% state of charge - so the 30 cycles may well take 60 days or more.

And even that is a lot because equalization too often will shorten the life of a battery.
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Old 11-02-2012, 17:59   #60
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Re: Optimal Charging Regimen - Wet Cells

I read the US battery specs, Id be very careful as to the interpretation of equalization. There recommendation is based on following their regime. Thats not the way batteries are used on boats.

The say that equalization is required regularly. Thats a length of string. Flooded lead acid in good condition maintained and recharged, even if not quite to 100% do not need equalization.

dave
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