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Old 25-11-2009, 10:30   #1
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Opinions Needed: Used KISS vs New AirX

I have a 1967 Chris Craft Apache, with a pretty narrow stern (around 5 to 6 feet) and not much room for a crazy mounting apparatus. I have an offer down to buy a 10 year old (1999) KISS wind generator for $550, but I'm also considering buying a new AIR-X Marine (710 on Amazon with 3 year warranty) -- the kiss has a better low end power curve, close to 4 amps at 10 kts vs. less than 2 for the air x, but I saw the KISS today and it's big, and definitely heavy (over 30lbs) vs 15 lbs for the AIR-X.....money is extremely tight (I'm in my late 20's -- spent most of my money on the rest of the refit) and I think the AIR-X is the better bet for me, smaller means less complicated mounting and a 3 year warranty is a nice security blanket

I'm leaving town where the KISS is located so it's today or never on that -- just want some angles I might not be seeing? Is the KISS worth the cheaper price even though it's 10 years old?

Thanks!
Brian
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Old 25-11-2009, 11:15   #2
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yes it is.
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Old 25-11-2009, 11:31   #3
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A windmill is a movable feast. All movable things break. I would go for a new unit.

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Old 25-11-2009, 11:33   #4
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I0 years spinny spinny is a lot of revolutions. I think a new one is only about 1k.

Now for $200........
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Old 25-11-2009, 12:06   #5
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yea that was my major concern -- anyone have a KISS that they've had for a long time? the previous owner of the KISS said that they just recently replaced the bearings
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Old 25-11-2009, 12:49   #6
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A new one is more than 1K and they'll spin forever. Mine's five years old. Original bearings, nothing to go wrong really. No brushes. Also the beauty of the KISS is that all the parts, bearings and diode pack are easily available at NAPA. On my old Windbugger, Bugger Bob even filed the numbers off the generator so you had to go to him for parts.
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Old 25-11-2009, 17:51   #7
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Go with the Kiss--the Air-X output curves are bogus, and if you want to sleep you will need the quieter after-market blades, which as I remember are about $250.
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Old 28-11-2009, 11:12   #8
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I have an Air-X and here is what I have found:

It can generate up to 500 watts in 35knot winds (depending on screw setting normally cuts off at 400w or so) but if the wind goes above that, it cuts off and produces NO power. This is especially bad when there is steady 25knots of wind and gusts much higher. I want to eventually remedy this by adding a rudder servo to the wind generator (powered by wind of course to turn off the wind but keep producing power)

Also, it starts spinning at 8knots, but does not produce anything useful until 10 knots. I would say it produces less than 2 amps at 10 knots though. It is hard to get an accurate measurement since the wind is changing speeds. In any case it does not work well in light winds. Supposedly the air-breeze works in 2knots slower wind, but they refuse to publish instantaneous amperage data instead just publishing monthly power generation (which they don't explain how is calculated) Also the Air-breeze only puts out 200 watts max.. You may however consider it.

The last issue you may have is noise, it is very noisy, but I personally do not care about it, it is a way for me to "hear" the wind better.

The nice thing is it turns off automatically with overspeed or battery overcharge which I doubt the KISS does. The KISS one would be cooler if they used mosfets with passive syncronous rectification instead of diodes (or in parallel with them)

If I could do this over again, I would get a rutland 913 because it is
1. sweeps smaller area (less wind load when beating or at anchor)
2. is quieter (I wonder how quiet)
3. works at lower wind speeds (down to 5knots)
4. works at higher wind speeds (up to 40knots or more)

The disadvantage to the air-x is cost, (plus you need a controller) and in the 15-30knot range, the air-x produces much more power.


I have a weather station aboard my boat and it is constantly logging windspeed data to my computer harddrive. Unfortunately the sensors need to be relocated to the top of the mast to make it more accurate. Eventually I plan to publish my wind data on a website of various cruises, then make it possible to enter what the energy produced at different wind speeds to compare total power that would have been generated from any wind generator (provided you have instantanious power production). Right now I have a lot of difficulty making comparisons (rutland works better at high and low ends, but not middle)
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Old 29-11-2009, 06:57   #9
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Interesting. Some corrections and missing info...
-- the Air-X requires no charge controller; it is the KISS unit that must be 'managed' by an external controller. The OP didn't mention the used KISS coming with such a device...so the cost comparisons may not be valid
-- a downstream problem with the Air-X (build issue, paint issue, eventually wear) is easily dealt with since Southwest Windpower offers tech advice by phone and has a slick return/repair program with quick turnaround. Having had to use this service after our unprotected 303 blew out in a storm, I must say it was an industry model.
-- The OP's concern about the difference in weight & swept area is spot on; it's a shame someone didn't pick up on this. The KISS generates more because it sweeps a wider arc...but is also going to require much stouter bracing. The OP's gut hunch to be concerned about this was very relevant given the stern geometry of his Apache.
-- KISS is the quieter air gen...but I fail to understand the rants about the Air-X blade noise. We had a first-gen Air 303 mounted 25' above our heads for 9 years while full-time cruising & living aboard and its blades were all but silent. When we felt it just wasn't realistic to expect more from the 303 (tho' it was performing 'as new'), we replaced it while wintering in Malta with an Air-X and its blades are also very quiet. We fine-sand the blades (400 grit) and then wax them before mounting the unit...but that's all. Based on 3 years with an Air-X, I would not make a purchase decision, pro or con, based on noise.

I must say I'm thankful for the Air-X's (and 303's) light weight, as (de)mounting it *above* the mizzen mast head by several feet would be all but impossible for me if it weighed more. It would be time to look for a bridge or a sky hook...

Jack
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Old 29-11-2009, 08:03   #10
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Although the previous owner's wife complained about our 11yr old KISS. Many cruiser's stopped by to ask about how quiet it is. There is a small amount of noise. I suggest to mount the one that fits your needs, and look at the noise as money falling from heaven..........i2f
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Old 29-11-2009, 08:57   #11
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As I recall the Kiss came out with new improved blades about 4-6 years ago that produced more power with les noise- I have a 4 year old one and wile in Greece with wind often at 20-25 knots It covers most if not all of my energy needs most of the time- in fact i have to turn it off at times because my batterys get topped off after a wile- it puts out 20-25 amps per hour --Very good uinit- I do not used a charge controller and it runs direct to the batterys (2- 255ap hr amgs)
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