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Old 13-06-2015, 07:18   #1
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One phase from three phase

Here's a question for you electrical wizards.

I am standing in a commercial port, couple weeks for free (I know the port director).

This port does not take yachts or even fishing vessels, so there is no single phase power anywhere. The smallest power outlet is one of those round ones with 5 pins. I believe that it is 380/230V three phase, with one phase on each of three pins, then neutral, and ground.

So my question: Can I get single phase 230 volt power out of such an outlet by connecting any one of the three phase pins to hot, neutral to neutral, and ground to ground?

I have actually sourced an appropriate plug, so can make an adapter if I've got the electrical part right.

Please advise. Also, if there is any test procedure which you recommend to be sure I've got it wired right. I guess hot to neutral to verify voltage, hot to ground to verify no voltage, right?
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Old 13-06-2015, 07:22   #2
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One phase from three phase

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
Here's a question for you electrical wizards.

I am standing in a commercial port, couple weeks for free (I know the port director).

This port does not take yachts or even fishing vessels, so there is no single phase power anywhere. The smallest power outlet is one of those round ones with 5 pins. I believe that it is 380/230V three phase, with one phase on each of three pins, then neutral, and ground.

So my question: Can I get single phase 230 volt power out of such an outlet by connecting any one of the three phase pins to hot, neutral to neutral, and ground to ground?

I have actually sourced an appropriate plug, so can make an adapter if I've got the electrical part right.

Please advise. Also, if there is any test procedure which you recommend to be sure I've got it wired right. I guess hot to neutral to verify voltage, hot to ground to verify no voltage, right?

If it is delta connected you will ,likely, not have a neutral.

Are you in the USA?

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Old 13-06-2015, 07:27   #3
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Re: One phase from three phase

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
Here's a question for you electrical wizards.

I am standing in a commercial port, couple weeks for free (I know the port director)......

Please advise. Also, if there is any test procedure which you recommend to be sure I've got it wired right. I guess hot to neutral to verify voltage, hot to ground to verify no voltage, right?
Not quite right.

Neutral and ground are the same potential, ie they are connected together.
So hot to neutral should be 230V and hot to ground should be 230V and neutral to ground is 0V.
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Old 13-06-2015, 07:32   #4
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Re: One phase from three phase

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cap Erict3 View Post
If it is delta connected you will ,likely, not have a neutral.

Are you in the USA?

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Old 13-06-2015, 07:33   #5
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Re: One phase from three phase

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Originally Posted by Wotname View Post
Not quite right.

Neutral and ground are the same potential, ie they are connected together.
So hot to neutral should be 230V and hot to ground should be 230V and neutral to ground is 0V.
Right, got it.

So do you agree with the principle, though? Is it true that I can take any one of the three phase pins, without regard to which one, and get 230v single phase power in the manner I propose? Or will it burn my boat down?

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Old 13-06-2015, 07:35   #6
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Re: One phase from three phase

Test procedure:
measure AC volts between all phases, you should read 380-400V each time. Measure from each phase to ground, you should read 220-240V each time.
A second test is to measure neutral against ground: You should read only couple volts between the two. A higher value would show a 'floating' neutral (=bad): If the neutral were on float, the 3x 220V from phase to neutral can shift, with one higher loaded phase having too low voltage and the other phases getting too high Voltage.

A good explanation of a bad, floating, neutral is here:
https://electricalnotes.wordpress.co...-distribution/

After above tests, I would connect as you describe, monitor the voltage and turn off/on your largest loads. If voltage stays stable, you should be OK.

One more thing, check the circuit breaker at the dock, it shouldn't be much larger than your shore power rating.

Dirk
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Old 13-06-2015, 07:37   #7
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Re: One phase from three phase

Quote:
Originally Posted by LeaseOnLife View Post
Test procedure:
measure AC volts between all phases, you should read 380-400V each time. Measure from each phase to ground, you should read 220-240V each time.
A second test is to measure neutral against ground: You should read only couple volts between the two. A higher value would show a 'floating' neutral (=bad): If the neutral were on float, the 3x 220V from phase to neutral can shift, with one higher loaded phase having too low voltage and the other phases getting too high Voltage.

A good explanation of a bad, floating, neutral is here:
https://electricalnotes.wordpress.co...-distribution/

After above tests, I would connect as you describe, monitor the voltage and turn off/on your largest loads. If voltage stays stable, you should be OK.

One more thing, check the circuit breaker at the dock, it shouldn't be much larger than your shore power rating.

Dirk
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Old 13-06-2015, 07:39   #8
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Re: One phase from three phase

Often, in commercial shipyards, 3 phase power is run to strategic receptacles around the yard. When a boat project begins, a portable lighting and power skid will be placed close to the work.
In US yards the receptacle will be 480 volts.


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Old 13-06-2015, 07:56   #9
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Re: One phase from three phase

http://www.worldstandards.eu/electri...ge-by-country/




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Old 13-06-2015, 08:50   #10
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Re: One phase from three phase

There is "doing this" and then there is "doing this safely". Big difference! Hire an electrician or at least work with the port mechanics! You don't want to hurt yourself or someone who is diving around your boat.
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Old 13-06-2015, 09:36   #11
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Re: One phase from three phase

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
Here's a question for you electrical wizards.

I am standing in a commercial port, couple weeks for free (I know the port director).

This port does not take yachts or even fishing vessels, so there is no single phase power anywhere. The smallest power outlet is one of those round ones with 5 pins. I believe that it is 380/230V three phase, with one phase on each of three pins, then neutral, and ground.

So my question: Can I get single phase 230 volt power out of such an outlet by connecting any one of the three phase pins to hot, neutral to neutral, and ground to ground?

I have actually sourced an appropriate plug, so can make an adapter if I've got the electrical part right.

Please advise. Also, if there is any test procedure which you recommend to be sure I've got it wired right. I guess hot to neutral to verify voltage, hot to ground to verify no voltage, right?
ask your mate at the port and check with their sparkies. I did it in Italy. Bought the big 3 phase male from the Marinas chandler. Got them to wire it for 240v.
Bingo it worked. If it hadn't I would have had a comeback to the Marina and chandler. Always good to have someone to blame. FYI I am clueless when it comes to 240V.
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Old 13-06-2015, 11:18   #12
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Re: One phase from three phase

Quote:
Originally Posted by lordgeoff View Post
ask your mate at the port and check with their sparkies. I did it in Italy. Bought the big 3 phase male from the Marinas chandler. Got them to wire it for 240v.
Bingo it worked. If it hadn't I would have had a comeback to the Marina and chandler. Always good to have someone to blame. FYI I am clueless when it comes to 240V.
The port director is a sailor and is offshore and out of reach this weekend. If I can make the adapter and test it properly and if the principle is sound, I would rather not wait for him to return.

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Old 13-06-2015, 11:55   #13
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Re: One phase from three phase

There is a reason it's called hertz and it ain't ol' Heinrich... it doesn't matter if it is 50 or 60, 240V lust hertz.
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Old 13-06-2015, 14:55   #14
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Re: One phase from three phase

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There is a reason it's called hertz and it ain't ol' Heinrich... it doesn't matter if it is 50 or 60, 240V lust hertz.
???

What?
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Old 13-06-2015, 15:39   #15
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Re: One phase from three phase

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
The port director is a sailor and is offshore and out of reach this weekend. If I can make the adapter and test it properly and if the principle is sound, I would rather not wait for him to return.

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When it comes to shore power it pays to get it connected by an expert.


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