Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 13-06-2015, 15:40   #16
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Cruising the Gulf of Mexico.
Boat: 1980 Morgan 415
Posts: 1,439
Re: One phase from three phase

Quote:
Originally Posted by trifan View Post
There is a reason it's called hertz and it ain't ol' Heinrich... it doesn't matter if it is 50 or 60, 240V lust hertz.

I think it's s play on words. Hurts as in pain.


------------------------------
Looking for another pretty place to work on the boat.
__________________

__________________
Working on spending my children's inheritance.
Cap Erict3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-06-2015, 16:04   #17
Certifiable Refitter/Senior Wannbe
 
Wotname's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: South of 43 S, Australia
Boat: Van DeStat Super Dogger 31'
Posts: 7,330
Re: One phase from three phase

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
Right, got it.

So do you agree with the principle, though? Is it true that I can take any one of the three phase pins, without regard to which one, and get 230v single phase power in the manner I propose? Or will it burn my boat down?

Sent from my SGP521 using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app
Yep, the princple is correct. Your expertise in applying the principle will determine the risk of burning down your boat.

Be assured though that if there is a fire, it will usually only burn down to the waterline and as this is DIY project, you might consider going down with the ship if your expertise isn't up to the task
__________________

__________________
All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangereous men, for they may act their dreams with open eyes, to make it possible. T.E. Lawrence
Wotname is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-06-2015, 16:11   #18
Senior Cruiser
 
StuM's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Port Moresby,Papua New Guinea
Boat: FP Belize Maestro 43
Posts: 6,707
Re: One phase from three phase

How's your insurance? Apart from the legality of doing your own "high voltage" wiring in many countries, insurance companies don't like claims where uncertified electrical work is involved. While you can do, I would get a qualified sparkie to wire up the converter and put an inspection tag on it, it shouldn't cost much.
__________________
StuM is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 13-06-2015, 16:50   #19
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 43
Re: One phase from three phase

If the voltage is 380/230 then it is a wye connection. Then phase to neutral gives you single phase 230 volt. In the USA one of the commercial 3 phase voltage is 208/120, so when you have a120 v receptacle you can plug in the same sorts of loads that you plug in at your single phase house.
__________________
ebs001 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-06-2015, 17:18   #20
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 213
Re: One phase from three phase

It ain’t high voltage!



It could be wired delta or Y, does not matter all that much to you if phase to phase is 230volts and that’s what your boat requires. Just make sure you get 230 volts phase to phase and 0 volts to ground.This could be a wild leg delta, be careful!
If you have a isolation transformer and your system does not run the dock ground past the transformer in side (Ground is not common across the transformer primary to secondary, this is commonly how it’s done but some people have other ideas), you can use this power source.Pick up two phases and run them into your isolation transformer primary side.Run the dock ground to the isolation xformer.
You have a ground system on the secondary side that will protect you against ground faults.
The overcurrent protection should be provided at the dockside hook-up.Use the same overcurrent protection as will protect your pigtail and the wiring to the xformer primary.It should be a common trip.

Don’t hook anything else up.Don’t’ try this unless you have an isolation transformer.It still could be correct but without knowing the exact way the dock power is wired this is the only safe bet.
__________________
um saudade is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-06-2015, 17:20   #21
med
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 186
Re: One phase from three phase

I think this is the usual European plug:-

med is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-06-2015, 17:49   #22
Registered User
 
Compactorguy's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Long Beach, Ca
Boat: Morgan 27
Posts: 58
Re: One phase from three phase

In the U.S. A three phase system say 480 volts 30 amp will consist of three hot lines 277 volts phased differently (think of the up and down curves you've seen on a scope, each curve is different than the other lines) this is so a three phase motor will have a continuing flow of power. There is no ground off those three lines. There is a separate ground line the forth usually green wire going to the plug. Take your tester and check voltage between ground and any one of the hots. If it is with 10% of your required voltage for example 220-240 for a 220 requirement. Make sure you are running proper fuse and breaker amperage protection being a commercial port you could have a supply of 100 or more amps when most marinas run 30 amps. 30 amps at 440 hurts like hell at a 100 amps your dead


Sent from my iPhone using Cruisers Sailing Forum
__________________
Compactorguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-06-2015, 17:51   #23
Registered User
 
nimblemotors's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Sacramento, California
Boat: Solar 40ft Cat :)
Posts: 1,557
Re: One phase from three phase

How about this, get a 3-phase spotlight and shine it on your solar panels,
then no worries.
__________________
JackB
MiniMPPT Solar Controller
nimblemotors is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-06-2015, 19:26   #24
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 213
Re: One phase from three phase

I read that wrong, sorry.If you have 380 from A to B to C and every phase ( ABC) to neutral is 240 volts then it has to be wired as a wye secondary from the power transformer.
Then follow my previous instructions but run a hot phase and the neutral to the isolation transformer on the boat.All else stays the same.
Not sure how your plug is wired but should be able to change that configuration.Jjust keep track of the old wiring configuration and check the voltage coming out of the transformer to the boat power panel before you throw the mains.
__________________
um saudade is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-06-2015, 20:21   #25
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Cruising the Gulf of Mexico.
Boat: 1980 Morgan 415
Posts: 1,439
Re: One phase from three phase

Quote:
Originally Posted by Compactorguy View Post
In the U.S. A three phase system say 480 volts 30 amp will consist of three hot lines 277 volts phased differently (think of the up and down curves you've seen on a scope, each curve is different than the other lines) this is so a three phase motor will have a continuing flow of power. There is no ground off those three lines. There is a separate ground line the forth usually green wire going to the plug. Take your tester and check voltage between ground and any one of the hots. If it is with 10% of your required voltage for example 220-240 for a 220 requirement. Make sure you are running proper fuse and breaker amperage protection being a commercial port you could have a supply of 100 or more amps when most marinas run 30 amps. 30 amps at 440 hurts like hell at a 100 amps your dead


Sent from my iPhone using Cruisers Sailing Forum

Never do this!! The ground should never be used as a conductor.


------------------------------
Looking for another pretty place to work on the boat.
__________________
Working on spending my children's inheritance.
Cap Erict3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-06-2015, 20:27   #26
Senior Cruiser
 
DeepFrz's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Winnipeg
Boat: None at this time
Posts: 7,930
Re: One phase from three phase

Run your generator!
__________________
The Blue Dot Campaign. This Changes Everything.
DeepFrz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-06-2015, 20:30   #27
Registered User
 
sy_gilana's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: On board
Boat: Van de Stadt 50'
Posts: 1,101
Send a message via Skype™ to sy_gilana
Re: One phase from three phase

Hi Dockhead, some of the posts as well as your original question are correct. Measure with your MM between N and L1,2,3 and if you find 230V you're fine. The only thing I would add is to connect to the phase with the highest voltage, this will help phase balancing, there will inevitably be a voltage drop on the phases that are most heavily tapped elsewhere in the ring. If you take the lowest one, you could overload one phase and that will trip all three. You might find its only 1/2 a volt, but it tells a tale.
Go do it! I have done it in many marinas and commercial ports.
__________________
Tight sheets to ya.
http://gilana.org
sy_gilana is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-06-2015, 22:06   #28
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 589
Re: One phase from three phase

Don't know about Europe but in the US you can go to about any hardware/Home Depot and buy an inexpensive voltage tester. I would suspect they are available in Europe also. How is that for some information that you can really use.
__________________
captlloyd is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 14-06-2015, 02:13   #29
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Sydney
Boat: Farr 1020
Posts: 223
Re: One phase from three phase

From the Pommy location, we can assume it is straightforward 3 phase, Earth and Neutral.
Probably, Multiple Earth Neutral system there, so yes, Earth and Neutral are the same voltage, so again, YES, wire from 1 phase to Neutral and include the separate earth.
Problem happens in the way the safety is arranged. There will be a Safety Switch, Earth Leakage Circuit Breaker or some other title for a gizmo that measures "what goes in, also comes out" If it does not, then it trips the circuit.
So, you can get (and cause) spurious safety trips if you get it slightly wrong.
Be safe and speak to the yard spark.
__________________
Djarraluda is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-06-2015, 03:13   #30
Moderator
 
Dockhead's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Cowes (Winter), Baltic (Summer) (the boat!); somewhere in the air (me!)
Boat: Cutter-Rigged Moody 54
Posts: 19,735
Re: One phase from three phase

Quote:
Originally Posted by sy_gilana View Post
Hi Dockhead, some of the posts as well as your original question are correct. Measure with your MM between N and L1,2,3 and if you find 230V you're fine. The only thing I would add is to connect to the phase with the highest voltage, this will help phase balancing, there will inevitably be a voltage drop on the phases that are most heavily tapped elsewhere in the ring. If you take the lowest one, you could overload one phase and that will trip all three. You might find its only 1/2 a volt, but it tells a tale.
Go do it! I have done it in many marinas and commercial ports.
Thank you! Very useful information.
__________________

__________________
Dockhead is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Charter Boat Ownership and the Phase Out. dasha Boat Ownership & Making a Living 57 30-11-2017 16:23
Three-Phase 12vdc Wind Generator Wiring Earth ( Ground ) mghunter Electrical: Batteries, Generators & Solar 9 13-11-2013 12:07
Phase one boat, about to pull the trigger. Ramblingman Monohull Sailboats 17 05-03-2013 18:42
Phase 2: Bahamas Relocation CaptBrosnan Meets & Greets 21 14-11-2010 14:51
Passive Cooling Technology - Phase Change Materials? rossir Liveaboard's Forum 1 10-07-2009 12:31



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 16:40.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.