Now we're talkin

[Alan Wheeler]

I just stumbled across this add in PBO.
Maxpower - Marine Fuel Cell
Now this is what I believe is the future, especially in the marine market.

[Pura Vida]

It seems that there are several of these on the market all running methanol. Looks pretty cool, especially for a small boat. I did not see the cost though.

[BambooSailor]

'Future' is the key word here, as of right now US$6500 + new cartridge every three days (when full power used) seems a little bit too much.

Last April, I brought these up after Stricktly Sail. They have a long way to go before the cost can justify the performance. I can not remember the thread, but the calculations for the cost per kw hour were far worse than a genset.

[hellosailor]

Very interesting, Wheels. Their cost comparison is somewhat convoluted, but I'd also like to see figures for stack maintenance, i.e. " however, the absolute minimum life of a stack is of 1500 h & can easily exceed 5000h. "
Whatever a stack is, if you replace it based on 24x7 usage as they seem to suggest running the cell, that means the stack last somewhere between 2-6 months.

OTOH, it looks like a great standby or backup power source. Use one battery bank and if it goes kerflooey...turn on the fuel cell instead. Still...a pricey technology.

[Alan Wheeler]

Yeah pricey. But I see this sort of thing getting better. It was not that long ago that this technologly was so expensive, it was only used in space.
I wonder what a "cartridge" does and what it costs??
US$6500 is expensie yes, but it is half the price of the wisper gen and puts out far more power.
I am not saying this "exact" technology is the way of the future. But I do believe the future does not hold out well for batteries. Eventually the technology that will win favour is,
economical to run,
good energy production for size,
enviromentaly safe in disposal,
has a good life span with easy maintanance procedures.
This equates to fuel cell type technology.

[hellosailor]

Wheels-
The "cartridge" is probably the real fuel cell itself, the plates and bus bars that actually allow generation of power from the methanol.

Couple of years ago some company in midtown Manhattan actually had very much larger (think tractor trailer sized) fuel cells lifted into their new building for on-site generation and backup, expecting that they'd need to replace them every five years. And there are home fuel cells (running on natural gas or propane, IIRC) that are about the same size as home heating oil storage tanks, same 5-year criteria IIRC.

Dunno. I laud the effort, I refuse to privately fund the research until after that Nigerian fellow gets my millions out of the bank.<G>

[DeepFrz]

For a 4.1 ah generator that is very expensive.

Then there is the problem of carrying alcohol on board. Which means a cruiser would be carrying diesel, gasoline for the outboard and alcohol for the fuel cell.

One of the magazines did a review of them a while back and the alcohol went pretty fast. I just forget the fuel usage but it was higher than I would have guessed. Maybe someone else has more specifics.

[Jackstee]

Hi all
Your right
3500 pounds for the unit and 33 pounds for each bottle of methonol. The unit I looked at did 100 amp hrs per 24 hrs.
Rgds

[northerncat]

i noticed these back in 2004 i think and i was kind of hoping that they would have taken off in the last few years but sadly no, i think that like the lithium batteries they will be consigned to the 2 expensive for noraml people basket
sean

[DeepFrz]

Jackstee, I believe that was 100 amps in 24 hrs or 4.1 amp hrs.

[cal40john]

Originally Posted by DeepFrz

Jackstee, I believe that was 100 amps in 24 hrs or 4.1 amp hrs.

I found the web site confusing. In the FAQ it says that it puts out 50 watts, that's about 4.1 amps, give or take what is your actual charging voltage. So it puts out 4.1 amps. Over a one hour time period, that is 4.1 amp-hr. In 24 hours that's 100 amp-hr.

In most places on their web site, A means amp-hr.
I hope that it is an english translation problem on the web site.

John

[Alan Wheeler]

Once again a site that gives a lot of figures that doesn't easily tell you all the facts.
I have a fuzzy space in my memory to suggest we ahve talked about either this product or a similar one quite sometime back. I remember the "fuel cartridge" being discussed and I can remember thinking then that that ruins the concept. Having to have expensive space consumign cartridges on board kind of defeats the purpose. We can only hope in the future other idea's may surface.
I see something like this being an aid to the Solar panels and maybe windgenerator. It means at night that the batteries can be charged when the Solar panels are not working fully and the days that wind is not working.

[DeepFrz]

John, you are right about the amp hrs.

This is probably a great product for the racing crowd where lightness trumps cost.

[GordMay]

Dutch Companies Starts Development of Hydrogen (Fuel Cell) Boat

Goto:
Dutch Consortium to Develop Fuel Cell Boat

Pressure from operators of pleasure craft in an around the canals of Amsterdam, and a desire on the part of the authorities there for any new craft that are licensed to be "zero emissions" vessels, will see a new generation of commercially operated fuel cell craft introduced into service early in 2008. After about a decade of pressure from operators, the authorities in Amsterdam have finally agreed to grant permits for 25 new craft, but they have stipulated that those vessels must be zero emissions craft.

Fuel Cell Boat BV, a consortium of Dutch companies, is developing a hydrogen-powered vessel, with a fuel cell as its power source, that Anglo-Dutch oil major Shell plans to use to transport around a 100 of its employees to and from work on a daily basis.

The great advantage of the hydrogen vessel is that it is environmentally-friendly. The new vessel will be a zero emission vessel with absolutely no emissions such as CO2 or NOx or Sox

The 'green' vessel is being designed by small naval architectural practice in The Netherlands and is expected to be complete later this year. Fuel Cell Boat has been talking to a number of yards that might build the vessel and is looking at the various types of fuel cells it might be fitted with, and talking to potential suppliers.

The fuel cell system on board will provide a total of 65kW of energy, but it is not clear yet whether this will be provided by a single, large unit; or a number of smaller fuel cell modules. Once the craft is completed, it will be rigorously tested by classification society Germanischer Lloyd, and approved by the Dutch government, prior to entering service with Shell.

Apart from the fuel cell craft itself, the other key feature of the project will be the construction of a hydrogen fueling station. The hydrogen required, will be produced by electrolysis, using electricity produced by a wind farm in the North Sea. This will make the process “green” from production of the hydrogen, right through to its consumption onboard.

The consortium responsible for the project includes Alewijnse, Integral, Linde Gas, Marine Service North (MSN) and Lovers. The Dutch Ministry of Economics has provided a subsidy for the development of the vessel. Alewijnse specialises in onboard electronics; Integral will be responsible for project management; Linde Gas is responsible for production, storage and distribution of the hydrogen; and MSN is responsible for the mechanical engineering on board.