Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 12-07-2013, 18:18   #1
Registered User
 
nolandinsight's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Alabama gulf coast
Boat: 1972 Morgan 35
Posts: 129
No Breakers For AC

40 year old Morgan, I can't find an AC breaker panel. Is this common for older boats?
__________________

__________________
nolandinsight is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2013, 18:29   #2
Registered User
 
Dsanduril's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: South Pacific
Boat: Outremer 50S
Posts: 1,451
Re: No Breakers For AC

Not uncommon. Many boats, even current, have no AC panel as their owners would rather not deal with the hassle.

Are there any AC appliances or outlets anywhere? Would be odd not to have a panel if there are, but otherwise would be quite normal.
__________________

__________________
Dsanduril is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2013, 18:52   #3
Registered User
 
nolandinsight's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Alabama gulf coast
Boat: 1972 Morgan 35
Posts: 129
There are eight outlets, and one round tube fluorescent light in the cabin that I assume is an AC light, as well as the shore power connection outside the cockpit. Also a phone jack. It was obviously set up as a live aboard at one time.

I'm a bit concerned about plugging in a shore power cord to see if it works, but I don't know much else to do.
__________________
nolandinsight is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2013, 18:54   #4
Registered User
 
nolandinsight's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Alabama gulf coast
Boat: 1972 Morgan 35
Posts: 129
Love the name of your boat, BTW. Tolkien fan?
__________________
nolandinsight is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2013, 19:51   #5
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: W Carib
Boat: Wildcat 35, Hobie 33
Posts: 7,957
Re: No Breakers For AC

Quote:
Originally Posted by nolandinsight View Post
There are eight outlets, and one round tube fluorescent light in the cabin that I assume is an AC light, as well as the shore power connection outside the cockpit. Also a phone jack. It was obviously set up as a live aboard at one time.

I'm a bit concerned about plugging in a shore power cord to see if it works, but I don't know much else to do.
I would trace those wires for sure before plugging anything into it. No breakers is a very bad idea. Hopefully there is a panel hidden away somewhere. If not, certainly need to install one before plugging in shore power.

Fluorescent may be 12V. They are pretty common.
__________________
belizesailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2013, 21:32   #6
Registered User
 
nolandinsight's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Alabama gulf coast
Boat: 1972 Morgan 35
Posts: 129
Yep. I think I'll tear it all out and start fresh. Wonder if there's any benefits/drawback to separating port and starboard receptacles into different circuits?
__________________
nolandinsight is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2013, 22:43   #7
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: canada
Posts: 1,699
Re: No Breakers For AC

I would defiantly split up the plugs. by room or however or how ever you want.
__________________
smac999 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-07-2013, 02:36   #8
֍֎֍֎֍֎֍֎֍֎

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 13,053
Re: No Breakers For AC

No breakers means it is probably homebrew. These days, you would install a GFI device as close to the electrical inlet (the shore power connector) as possible, as the first defense against accidental electrocution. If you really wanted to keep it cheap and simple, that could be a GFI with a 15A (etc) breaker in the same box. Not always easy to reach, but minimal work.

Tracing the wires is always a good idea when you're dealing with anonymous work. You never know who did a "twist and tape" or left wires to chafe. Easy enough to check it out, and replace if need be. And add the proper breaker panel inside for safety.
__________________
hellosailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-07-2013, 07:28   #9
Registered User
 
nolandinsight's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Alabama gulf coast
Boat: 1972 Morgan 35
Posts: 129
Update: found the "breaker panel". Anyone remember these?
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	image-729902576.jpg
Views:	119
Size:	121.4 KB
ID:	64073  
__________________
nolandinsight is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-07-2013, 12:33   #10
֍֎֍֎֍֎֍֎֍֎

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 13,053
Re: No Breakers For AC

YES!
Edison-base fuse replacements. I had once bought a pack figuring to replace the Fustat houses at home, which I thought were Edison base. But no, Fustat was a "medium Edison" smaller size base. Like the odd decorative light bulbs that are not candelabra, not full size.

They should work but I'd still replace the box with a whole new one that had a GFI built in, along with newer breakers.
__________________
hellosailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-07-2013, 12:40   #11
cat herder, extreme blacksheep
 
zeehag's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: furycame alley , tropics, mexico for now
Boat: 1976 FORMOSA yankee clipper 41
Posts: 17,772
Images: 56
Send a message via Yahoo to zeehag Send a message via Skype™ to zeehag
Re: No Breakers For AC

when i converted my ericson, i made sure the panel dealt with the dc electrical needs. i made only one gfi outlet usable, and the rest of boat, except for charging with generator or shore power is dc.
my boat also has a nice electrical wiring diagram -- i dont use perko switches in that boat, but 3 toggles under my charger invertor. very easy and well designed--my electrician did that for me when oi bought that boat.
zeehag is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-07-2013, 12:45   #12
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Chesapeake Region and Maine
Boat: 42' Bob Perry sloop
Posts: 4,038
Images: 4
Re: No Breakers For AC

You need a breaker on both the hot and the neutral wires (black and white). These should be ganged together, and located not more than 40" from the deck inlet.

Wiring from the inlet to the breakers and panel should be AWG10 for a 30A circuit.

The green grounding wire should be carried to all inlets and to the boat's common ground point, preferably with a galvanic isolator installed in series.

Before you start anything, it would be good to read up a bit on boat wiring and, if possible, consult a knowledgeable marine electrician. Note than many shore-based electricians are not knowledgeable about marine installations; there is a difference.

AC wiring on a boat is nothing to fool with. You can easily kill yourself or someone else if you don't do it correctly.

Based on your picture and description, I believe it would be best to replace the whole shebang, starting at the boat inlet.

Bill
__________________
btrayfors is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-07-2013, 17:43   #13
Registered User
 
nolandinsight's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Alabama gulf coast
Boat: 1972 Morgan 35
Posts: 129
Galvanic isolator? Is that to keep the metal bits from deteriorating? That's what happens when the green wire is doing its job, no?
__________________
nolandinsight is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-07-2013, 17:48   #14
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Chesapeake Region and Maine
Boat: 42' Bob Perry sloop
Posts: 4,038
Images: 4
Re: No Breakers For AC

Quote:
Originally Posted by nolandinsight View Post
Galvanic isolator? Is that to keep the metal bits from deteriorating? That's what happens when the green wire is doing its job, no?
No. The green wire is a grounding wire to help keep you from killing yourself.

Here's the scoop on galvanic isolators: BoatUS: Seaworthy

Bill
__________________
btrayfors is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-07-2013, 17:52   #15
Nearly an old salt
 
goboatingnow's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 13,649
Images: 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by btrayfors View Post

No. The green wire is a grounding wire to help keep you from killing yourself.

Here's the scoop on galvanic isolators: BoatUS: Seaworthy

Bill
Its debate able what a " groundwire" on a boat is doing at times , I'd stay fit an all boat RCD and rely less on so called ground wires !

Dave
__________________

__________________
Check out my new blog on smart boat technology, networking and gadgets for the connected sailor! - http://smartboats.tumblr.com
goboatingnow is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 18:50.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.