New Technology Is Coming for Batteries and Charging

[careka]

Look here.

Battery Breakthrough Could Improve Capacity And Reduce Charge Time By A Factor Of Ten Each | TechCrunch

we will se better stuff being made.

[jhkm12345]

I've been wondering when we would hear of someone adapting a new hybrid/electric car battery bank into a cruising boat... the chevy volt uses, what appears to be, a chain of "laptop" batteries. lithium ion.
there are enough toyota prius' rolling around now that they should be available reasonably...

[jzk]

Here is a vanadium battery that charges in six minutes, will propel a car 375 miles and lasts for decades:

www.cnbc.com/id/45230454

Or so the company says anyway.

[denverd0n]

Originally Posted by jzk

Or so the company says anyway.

Considering that the technology remains to be proven, I'd say these are the operative words.

I am hopeful that this turns out as wonderfully as the company claims. I am hopeful, but I am also a bit skeptical.

[s/v Jedi]

There's plenty boats with Lithium battery banks already... the threads are right here on this forum. Check out the LiFePO thread !!

cheers,
Nick.

[jzk]

Originally Posted by denverd0n

Considering that the technology remains to be proven, I'd say these are the operative words.

I am hopeful that this turns out as wonderfully as the company claims. I am hopeful, but I am also a bit skeptical.

Agreed. But, it is coming. There are many vanadium batteries in use; the question is whether they are commercially viable. The more electric cars that get shoved into the marketplace, the more desirable such a solution, the more money will go into developing it.

That said, buying the latest battery technology for your boat is, unfortunately, hard to describe as a "value."

[pillum]

Originally Posted by jzk

Here is a vanadium battery that charges in six minutes, will propel a car 375 miles and lasts for decades:

www.cnbc.com/id/45230454

Or so the company says anyway.

Hmmm

Let's say it's a 12V system that powers a 50HP car for 375 miles at 50 mph, that's 3107amps for 7.5 hours use, so a 23300 AmpHour battery.

To charge it in six minutes the charger would have to be rated around 233000 amps! even if the motor was a 1200V motor the amp rating of the charger 2330 amps. Check my math but I think it is not feasible. Maybe once we we can use dilithium crystals like the Starship Enterprise....

[David_Old_Jersey]

Originally Posted by pillum

Hmmm

Let's say it's a 12V system that powers a 50HP car for 375 miles at 50 mph, that's 3107amps for 7.5 hours use, so a 23300 AmpHour battery.

To charge it in six minutes the charger would have to be rated around 233000 amps! even if the motor was a 1200V motor the amp rating of the charger 2330 amps. Check my math but I think it is not feasible. Maybe once we we can use dilithium crystals like the Starship Enterprise....

That's old style thinking ......"run out of fuel and fill 'er up" (Petrol or Electric).

With Electric cars the easy and quick way is to swap all (or only some) of the batteries......obviously the car needs to be designed to acheive that easily (semi / full automation). and the garage likewise (basic infrastructure isn't really a problem, doesn't even have to be a traditional forecourt.......even if requires some Govt input (standardised design and short term cash - a lot cheaper than funding "Green" electric generation that will never be more than a hobby ). No reason why could not do same at home and still have the plug and charge option. Bonus is that folk could buy the cars - but lease the batteries (no maintainence / replacement issues as the batteries are not "yours").

But with modern technology onboard no real excuse to run out of Electric power unexpectedly.....and all that's before on street / car park charging points.......or even valet charging (battery swap) for commuters.......

Appreciate translating all that to a boat will present challenges But it's fairly early days yet with electric personal transportation........just need some new thinking into the mix as well as new technology.

[pillum]

Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey

That's old style thinking ......"run out of fuel and fill 'er up" (Petrol or Electric).

With Electric cars the easy and quick way is to swap all (or only some) of the batteries......obviously the car needs to be designed to acheive that easily (semi / full automation). and the garage likewise (basic infrastructure isn't really a problem, doesn't even have to be a traditional forecourt.......even if requires some Govt input (standardised design and short term cash - a lot cheaper than funding "Green" electric generation that will never be more than a hobby ). No reason why could not do same at home and still have the plug and charge option. Bonus is that folk could buy the cars - but lease the batteries (no maintainence / replacement issues as the batteries are not "yours").

But with modern technology onboard no real excuse to run out of Electric power unexpectedly.....and all that's before on street / car park charging points.......or even valet charging (battery swap) for commuters.......

Appreciate translating all that to a boat will present challenges But it's fairly early days yet with electric personal transportation........just need some new thinking into the mix as well as new technology.

I hear you David, but that's a heck of a lot of batteries to swap. Still and all I would love to use an electric motor, I just think it's way in the future as yet. Have to hang onto old smokey for a few years yet .

Cheers
Paul

[David_Old_Jersey]

Originally Posted by pillum

I hear you David, but that's a heck of a lot of batteries to swap. Still and all I would love to use an electric motor, I just think it's way in the future as yet. Have to hang onto old smokey for a few years yet .

Cheers
Paul

For new builds could take the "Dinghy Garage" approach - indeed the batteries (or at least half of them) could be part of the dinghy! Most times when using the dink no call to use mother ship at the same time (although leaving some battery power onboard would be needed)........the idea being that onboard only needs to re-charge half the Batteries - Dink batteries either get swapped out or charged in a Marina

[jzk]

Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey

That's old style thinking ......"run out of fuel and fill 'er up" (Petrol or Electric).

With Electric cars the easy and quick way is to swap all (or only some) of the batteries......obviously the car needs to be designed to acheive that easily (semi / full automation). and the garage likewise (basic infrastructure isn't really a problem, doesn't even have to be a traditional forecourt.......even if requires some Govt input (standardised design and short term cash - a lot cheaper than funding "Green" electric generation that will never be more than a hobby ). No reason why could not do same at home and still have the plug and charge option. Bonus is that folk could buy the cars - but lease the batteries (no maintainence / replacement issues as the batteries are not "yours").

But with modern technology onboard no real excuse to run out of Electric power unexpectedly.....and all that's before on street / car park charging points.......or even valet charging (battery swap) for commuters.......

Appreciate translating all that to a boat will present challenges But it's fairly early days yet with electric personal transportation........just need some new thinking into the mix as well as new technology.

There are companies building electric cars today according to this model. The battery is in the floor of the car and slides in and out at a battery charging facility. This is, in part, due to the sensitive way current batteries charge. If you charge them half way, you end up reducing their lives, so why not have a central facility that has expertise in the charging. See the public company KNDI for example.

If such a vanadium battery that I described earlier comes to fruition, it could easily drive electric propulsion to most sailboats. Most sailboats are moored and used on the weekends or a few times per week. And, I suspect that sailboats could be designed for electric propulsion in a way that allows the batteries to be installed near or in the keel to become part of the designed ballast.

Again, many boats are plugged in most of the time. The owner comes to the boat, motors out of the marina, sets the sails, and shuts off the engine.

The voyager, of course, is a different model but a minority of new sailboat purchases. I would imagine that a "pod" with an efficient charging propeller could be lowered into the water at the stern to afford charging. Solar and wind would supplement, of course. There are no real physical absolute limitations preventing this, but rather the state of storage technology.

If the wind can power a vessel to cross Oceans, certainly the wind can power the energy systems on board the vessel as well. (Converting the sail propulsion to electricity through the water generator).

Or perhaps a multi-pitch prop could be used on the main propulsion motor. One pitch for electric drive and another for charging the batteries. I don't know enough about whether the same motor is ideal for both propulsion and charging.

[jzk]

As far as the problem of "drag" there are times in light - medium winds that this is a factor. However, a modern displacement sailboat is often in the situation that it has more sail power than it can use due to hull speed limitations. Once the boat gets to hull speed, any further "pull" from the sails is mostly wasted. At those times, the boat will still sail hull speed, and be generating some good electricity.

[David_Old_Jersey]

Originally Posted by jzk

There are companies building electric cars today according to this model. The battery is in the floor of the car and slides in and out at a battery charging facility. This is, in part, due to the sensitive way current batteries charge. If you charge them half way, you end up reducing their lives, so why not have a central facility that has expertise in the charging. See the public company KNDI for example.

Yeah, I have read about them - usefulness comes down to how the (existing) technology is deployed - which is something that is easily doable, just a matter of the will........and the cash. IMO getting towards the point where Electric charging / battery swapping will be commercially viable (IMO if it ain't commercially viable - the technology doesn't "work").

The next 5 years will be interesting