New DC/AC setup - input

[BigAl.NZ]

Hiya,

We are looking at upgrading the DC and AC systems on our 40" Hood.

I have pretty much decided on a Victron Multi 12v 2000VA 80.

That will give about 1600W out of 370Ah of battery. Should be enough to easily run the two main AC appliances on the boat - a Nespresso and a 22" LED TV, and my laptop.

For solar charging replace the old units with Victron MPPT150|35.

Now the bit I am not certain about. Victron do a nice color GX controller https://www.victronenergy.com/panel-.../color-control but its pricey.

The other option is when I replace the DC panels with the BEP Marine 44 Switch panel I could use there integrated display which I think will be cheaper. Millennium Series DC Circuit Breaker Panel with Digital Meters, 44SP DC12V | BEP

The pro's of the BEP Panel are its cheaper and I can monitor other things (like water tanks). The con is it only has 6 pages.

The Victron GX seems to give a better overview of whats going on with the state of charge and where its coming from.

Anyone have experience with both these units?

Cheers

-Al

[rom]

I only have about 16 months experience with Victron equipments onboard, so far so good.
I did not see how the expensive GX would be useful, I have the BMV which is easy to read and gives all the information I need. BTW, I think it's the BMV you should compare with the integrated BEP, not the GX ?

[BigAl.NZ]

Originally Posted by rom

I only have about 16 months experience with Victron equipments onboard, so far so good.
I did not see how the expensive GX would be useful, I have the BMV which is easy to read and gives all the information I need. BTW, I think it's the BMV you should compare with the integrated BEP, not the GX ?

Thanks I will check them out.

Have a look at also the Victron Venus GX. Connection via smart phone, just as Good as GX and data logging.

https://www.victronenergy.com/panel-...oring/venus-gx

[rom]

Originally Posted by BigAl.NZ

Thanks I will check them out.

Have a look at also the Victron Venus GX. Connection via smart phone, just as Good as GX and data logging.

https://www.victronenergy.com/panel-...oring/venus-gx

yes the venus is an interesting piece of equipement but I can live without it. It seems to be about 300 EUR whereas the BMV is about 160 EUR shunt included. You should check by yourself but from my understanding there is no shunt with venus or GX, so those two would be complementary to the required BMV anyway.

[ayates]

Originally Posted by BigAl.NZ

Now the bit I am not certain about. Victron do a nice color GX controller https://www.victronenergy.com/panel-.../color-control but its pricey.

I have a CCGX installed, but I have been using it for its data logging capabilities, rather than its real time monitoring function. It love it so far.


Allan.

[Locquatious]

Consider skipping the AC. Most things actually run on DC. Going from battery DC to AC and back to DC is very inefficient.

For a TV we found a 12V nominal unit and connected it directly to the boat DC. Look at the power pack to determine the nominal voltage of the unit. If it says 120V AC to 12V DC take a voltmeter and measure the output. Chances are it reads higher than 12V, making it likely that the TV will take the actual battery voltage. Just cut the DC portion of the cord and tie it in to the battery.

Look into DC-DC buck (lower the voltage) or boost (raise the voltage) converters that are adjustable. Some are in the 90+% efficiency range. When you set the output to a voltage, it stays there even though the battery voltage input varies. Put a switch before the converter so it can be turned off. We power our computers and wifi with one 10-24V In to 16.5V Out DC-DC buck-boost converter. We power 5V devices, such as a bluetooth audio receiver, with a non-adjustable 5-24V In to 5V Out DC-DC buck converter. They also offer some protection against voltage spikes.

[S/V Alchemy]

Originally Posted by BigAl.NZ

Hiya,

We are looking at upgrading the DC and AC systems on our 40" Hood.

I have pretty much decided on a Victron Multi 12v 2000VA 80.

That will give about 1600W out of 370Ah of battery. Should be enough to easily run the two main AC appliances on the boat - a Nespresso and a 22" LED TV, and my laptop.

For solar charging replace the old units with Victron MPPT150|35.

Now the bit I am not certain about. Victron do a nice color GX controller https://www.victronenergy.com/panel-.../color-control but its pricey.

The other option is when I replace the DC panels with the BEP Marine 44 Switch panel I could use there integrated display which I think will be cheaper. Millennium Series DC Circuit Breaker Panel with Digital Meters, 44SP DC12V | BEP

The pro's of the BEP Panel are its cheaper and I can monitor other things (like water tanks). The con is it only has 6 pages.

The Victron GX seems to give a better overview of whats going on with the state of charge and where its coming from.

Anyone have experience with both these units?

Cheers

-Al

I am ordering a Victron 3000VA unit this week. I have declined to get the (indeed pricy, whizbang) Color monitor as it has more than I can use. It would be great in a different scenario, however. Instead, I'm getting the cheaper https://www.victronenergy.com/panel-...ntrol-panel-gx, with the VRM software (about $150). This will allow me to do my monitoring on my PC or even my phone, but the daily "am I in bulk or float?" question is handled by simple, at a glance LEDs.

[rom]

Originally Posted by S/V Alchemy

I am ordering a Victron 3000VA unit this week. I have declined to get the (indeed pricy, whizbang) Color monitor as it has more than I can use. It would be great in a different scenario, however. Instead, I'm getting the cheaper https://www.victronenergy.com/panel-...ntrol-panel-gx, with the VRM software (about $150). This will allow me to do my monitoring on my PC or even my phone, but the daily "am I in bulk or float?" question is handled by simple, at a glance LEDs.

You need an additional piece of equipement like the bluetooth smart dongle to connect your PC or phone don't you ?

then again, this digital multi control GX does not provide the same type of information as a BMV-700 or the BEP panel the OP was referering to. If you want to monitor your global consumption (AC & DC) and the state of charge of your house battery you need a BMV or similar.

Edit: maybe victron sells the shunt w/o the BMV and you can connect venus or CCGX directly to the shunt. to be verified.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by BigAl.NZ

Hiya,

We are looking at upgrading the DC and AC systems on our 40" Hood.

I have pretty much decided on a Victron Multi 12v 2000VA 80.

That will give about 1600W out of 370Ah of battery. Should be enough to easily run the two main AC appliances on the boat - a Nespresso and a 22" LED TV, and my laptop.

For solar charging replace the old units with Victron MPPT150|35.

Now the bit I am not certain about. Victron do a nice color GX controller https://www.victronenergy.com/panel-.../color-control but its pricey.

The other option is when I replace the DC panels with the BEP Marine 44 Switch panel I could use there integrated display which I think will be cheaper. Millennium Series DC Circuit Breaker Panel with Digital Meters, 44SP DC12V | BEP

The pro's of the BEP Panel are its cheaper and I can monitor other things (like water tanks). The con is it only has 6 pages.

The Victron GX seems to give a better overview of whats going on with the state of charge and where its coming from.

Anyone have experience with both these units?

Cheers

-Al

Just FYI, Victron inverters give a lot less practical output, than their rating.

I have the "3000" Multiplus, which superficially sounds like 3000 watts, but it's actually kVA, and wait -- that's only when dead cold. In reality, I can't run a continuous load of more than about 2000 watts, and that's in a cold climate in a very well ventilated space.

If you need to run anything much more than 1000 watts, you might want to go a size bigger.

[john61ct]

Maybe the 3000 is a safe transient surge rating rather than continuous.

For that sort of money, unless you really want the network integration, I'd go Magnum or maybe Vanner.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by john61ct

Maybe the 3000 is a safe transient surge rating rather than continuous.

For that sort of money, unless you really want the network integration, I'd go Magnum or maybe Vanner.

Surge is supposed to be 6000va. But reality is less.

Magnum may be a better choice. My Victron gear has not been all that reliable.

[rom]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Just FYI, Victron inverters give a lot less practical output, than their rating.

I have the "3000" Multiplus, which superficially sounds like 3000 watts, but it's actually kVA, and wait -- that's only when dead cold. In reality, I can't run a continuous load of more than about 2000 watts, and that's in a cold climate in a very well ventilated space.

If you need to run anything much more than 1000 watts, you might want to go a size bigger.

I have a totally opposite experience with my multi 12/3000/120, 230V, purchased new may 2016 fwiw. Everyday it easily runs my nespresso, kettle, coffee machine, hot water tank etc ... and sometimes a mix of them when my passengers don't pay enough attention.

But more than that, it runs my new samsung grill microwave combo rated 2850W. Well, at max power the overcharge LED starts to blink, but the 16A breaker fails before the multiplus. I don't even know what it does when the multiplus fails, it never happened !

Could it be that yours is older generation or 110V ?

Edit: I just check the spec, the multiplus 3000 is rated 2400W@25°C, same for 120VAC or 230VAC.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by rom

I have a totally opposite experience with my multi 12/3000/120, 230V, purchased new may 2016 fwiw. Everyday it easily runs my nespresso, kettle, coffee machine, hot water tank etc ... and sometimes a mix of them when my passengers don't pay enough attention.

But more than that, it runs my new samsung grill microwave combo rated 2850W. Well, at max power the overcharge LED starts to blink, but the 16A breaker fails before the multiplus. I don't even know what it does when the multiplus fails, it never happened !

Could it be that yours is older generation or 110V ?

Edit: I just check the spec, the multiplus 3000 is rated 2400W@25°C, same for 120VAC or 230VAC.

Lucky guy!

Mine is the 24/3000/70, 230v. It is rated for 2000 watts at 40C, and I believe that is operating temperature, not ambient temperature.

In practice, I get either a "temperature" or "overload" warning if I use much more than about 2000 watts for more than a few minutes.

I'm not saying it's not enough! I can run any single piece of gear on board with it, even my washer/dryer (which draws 2200 watts peak). It does handle startup surge from electric motors without any problem.

But I just wanted to be sure that the OP didn't have any unrealistic expectations which might require him to change the unit soon after he bought it.

I do love the functionality of the Multiplus -- it does everything you could ever want, and the power boost feature is fabulous. I'm just slightly mistrustful of it since it blew out once already within warranty (got great warranty service, but taking it out and reinstalling it was a hellacious job), and I've had failures of most other pieces of Victron gear on board at one time or another.

[fallingeggs]

I have the Victron 2000/80, two Victron solar controllers, Victron BMV and the GX Color. They should sponsor me.

They have only been installed for a few months, so I can't assess long term quality independently.

The linkage that the GX Color provides is great, but absolutely not necessary for everything to work properly by any means.

I got it mainly for data logging so that I can KNOW how I produce power (via solar and genny) and how I use it (DC and AC). How useful will this actually be in two years? Not really sure. But having the data gives me amusement.

Victron continues to update the system and integration, which is nice. That said, I would like to see additional features added. For example, I think it would be nice if the 2000/80 and the solar controllers would use the voltage reading of the BMV.

And did I hear that the VRM is now a software? About time. But not paying $150 for it right now. They have enough of my money.

[rom]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Mine is the 24/3000/70, 230v. It is rated for 2000 watts at 40C, and I believe that is operating temperature, not ambient temperature.

The datasheet is not clear there but since the charger is rated at 25°C ambient, I would guess it is ambient as well for the inverter. And it says 2200W @40°C.

Your experience is making me a little anxious though. Trying to understand what might differ from your setup to mine. Are you using the multiplus as a charger , like a lot I mean ? because I have only used the charger like 5 times for testing purposes, maybe that is the fragile part of the system ?