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Old 30-01-2014, 07:56   #1
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new charger inverter

Wondering if anyone can steer me in the right direction.

Presently we have a Freedom 25 inverter charger installed on the boat which needs replacing. 14 years old and 50hz/220v model. Ordered a mastervolt 12/4000 50hz/220v which will take everthing from 185-250 volt input 45-65hz.

While studying up for the installation today I realized that the AC wiring configuration is slightly different as the high amperage bus on the existing AC panel set up is fed directly from the shorepower,genset switch through a 50 amp circuit breaker which also supplies ac power to the charger. On the new charger inverter the recommended setup is to run all the AC through a breaker to the inverter/charger which then splits the output between a nonswitched AC output and a "shortbreak AC output" which is either supplied by the incoming AC through a relay or from the inverted DC power from the batteries. This allows the unit to regulate the AC output on both leads with several fancy functions including power sharing, power support, etc.

Question is this: Since there is only 1 set of wires for the output currently installed and the new configuration would require another heavier set to be installed along with rewiring the inputs to the buses, is it really necessary to do this or can I just leave the heavy loads wired directly to the main bus and only use the short break circuit as it is currently set up. I know that this would preclude the use of some of the functions of the new inverter charger such as power support but I really don't think that this is required as we have never experienced an issue where the genset(7kv) or shorepower (50amp min) cannot supply the needs of the boat.

I may be missing something due to the frequency input/output but I don't know for sure as I assume that the unit doesn't do anything with the AC power when not inverting except close the relay to the short break circuit when charging the batteries.

Thanks for the help
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Old 01-02-2014, 00:47   #2
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Re: new charger inverter

what size cable currently feeds the charger / inverter? a 2500w inverter charger shouldn't have been run off the 50a main breaker. should have had it's own smaller one. probably like 15a. (we run 30a with 10 awg wire at 120v)

I see a lot of boats running a charger / inverter straight from the main breaker and it's often not good.

I can't comment on the real question. I haven't installed the mastervolt. lots of other ones. generally you have the main feed split to non inverter loads (hot water heater, battery chargers etc) and to the inverter with a single cable in and out which then powers the breakers for the inverter loads. which it sounds like you have now.
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Old 01-02-2014, 18:10   #3
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Re: new charger inverter

Quote:
Originally Posted by smac999 View Post
what size cable currently feeds the charger / inverter? a 2500w inverter charger shouldn't have been run off the 50a main breaker. should have had it's own smaller one. probably like 15a. (we run 30a with 10 awg wire at 120v)

I see a lot of boats running a charger / inverter straight from the main breaker and it's often not good.

I can't comment on the real question. I haven't installed the mastervolt. lots of other ones. generally you have the main feed split to non inverter loads (hot water heater, battery chargers etc) and to the inverter with a single cable in and out which then powers the breakers for the inverter loads. which it sounds like you have now.
#6 wire feeds the inverter/charger from a separate breaker on the bus rail which is fed from the main 50 amp breaker. Sorry for the confusion.

And that is the problem as the new inverter requires 2 separates feeds from the inverter back to the panel carrying all the AC. 1 for the heavy loads and 1 for the lighter loads carrying inverted AC.

Can't see why I couldn't just leave the wiring alone for now until we can get somewhere else that will have parts available (Malaysia now). I realize that this would preclude the availability of some of the functions of the new charger however you know how these things go. Once you start replacing systems there are usually lots of small items required to be replaced, upgraded, etc (RCD's, breakers) and this is not NA.
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Old 01-02-2014, 20:09   #4
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Re: new charger inverter

The Freedom, although its probably antiquated in design now, should also have been wired as the mastervolt recommends.
But, My philosophy is to do it once and do it right.
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Old 01-02-2014, 20:46   #5
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Re: new charger inverter

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Originally Posted by dohenyboy View Post
The Freedom, although its probably antiquated in design now, should also have been wired as the mastervolt recommends.
But, My philosophy is to do it once and do it right.
I wondered about that as well but when I checked the installation manual it shows only 1 AC input and 1 AC output with the connection between the 2 made when the charger is switched on.

It is not that I want to skimp on the installation of the new inverter it is just that we are only on the boat for another 2 months until we have to go back to Canada and being in Malaysia you can spend more time looking for parts and material than actually doing the install. Especially during Chinese New Year.

My only thought was to wire the new inverter the same as the existing until we had the boat pulled out at the end of March and we could do the install right with all the safety features as recommended by Mastervolt including an RDC on the AC voltage supplied by the inverter of which there is not one now.
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Old 05-02-2014, 02:48   #6
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Re: new charger inverter

Wondering if anyone is familiar enough with these inverter/charger combi units to be able to tell me if there would be any harm in installing this unit horizontally instead of vertically due to lack of height clearance. Must be a heat issue but only guessing. A vertical installation would necessitate major surgery.

Thanks
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Old 05-02-2014, 03:13   #7
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new charger inverter

You don't have to use the AC Output terminals. You can wire to only the Short Break terminals and it should work same as your old system.

Mounting horizontal will likely lead to over heating except at low power operation.. If you do mount it horizontally temporarily check the case often to be sure it isn't getting hot. Probably it will shut down if it does over heat but not a good idea to rely on the thermal overloads as the life of the components will be reduced. For long term use at higher power it must be mounted vertical.
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Old 05-02-2014, 03:15   #8
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Re: new charger inverter

You can install it the same way your old one was to get it working. That being said I would do it the way they recommend as soon as the parts are available. These newer units do a great job of extending the life of your electronics, laptops etc by stabilizing the power supply. The spikes that will cause your genset to surge and change voltage and frequency will be evened out. I don't know about Mastervolt but Magnum also wants them mounted in a very specific direction. I do believe heat is the major issue.
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Old 05-02-2014, 07:48   #9
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Re: new charger inverter

Thanks for the input guys. The old heart unit gave up the ghost so I will have to do at least a temporary install of the new unit to keep us going until we can get back to Phuket where there are shops and supplies to do it right. Will make sure that we try to minimize loads on the unit until we can install properly and will check the case often when in use. Thankfully we have a 200 amp Balfour engine driven charger that can take most of the workload for recharging the batteries in the short term and we will leave the shortbreak as the only AC output until we hit Phuket. Plan on heading out as soon as the new inverter is in.

Appreciate the help.
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