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Old 02-02-2005, 05:48   #1
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new batterys

My batteies are dead and need to be replaced. I have read about 6 volt golf car batteries being the way to go. I have been wondering about using 12 volt deep cycle. Our boat has space for 9 batteries broken it two banks for house and navigation. I have 3 wet cell 8D batteries now and they lasted 2 years. I know that they are the wrong battery but they did what I wanted.
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Old 02-02-2005, 06:37   #2
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Same problem

We have the same problem. We lost our house bank after a Heart Charger problem.

We spoke with many cruisers here and a large portion use the 6 volt Trojan T105's set up in series to provide 12 volts. We will have to change our setup to accomodate the new arrangement. Should not be much of a problem.

Here in Venezuela the cost of an exact replacement will exceed $1,200 US. We can get the Trojans for about half.

Many of the cruisers have been using this setup for years and are happy.
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Old 02-02-2005, 07:34   #3
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Been using the golf cart set-up for 5 years now.
The 6 volt Deka batteries are holding up good and I expect to get a few more years use out of them.

Price was $65.00 per battery, X 4 is $260.00 total, then didvided in 7 years (Hopefully) and the annual price comes to $37.00 and change...Pretty inexpensive..

Shop carfully, West wants $120.00 for the batteries, and they are made by Deka and the exact same battery as the Deka labelled ones ya can find cheaper somewhere else.

Have heard Trojan had some quality problems after they moved production to Mexico....Not sure if that is rumors or reality..?
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Old 02-02-2005, 09:28   #4
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Torjan batteries

US prices for batteries are definate better than here in Venezuela.

Almost everyone we spoke with has not had problems and recommend the Trojans. Thanks for the input I can go hunt to see if this is the case and to make sure I get a test on the battries here before buying.
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Old 02-02-2005, 09:59   #5
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Get more than two years of battery life

Regardess of which type of battery you replace your dead ones with, if you desire to get more life you will first need to design your system so that it will survive longer.

If you live on the hook you probably killed your batteries prematurely by undercharging them and perhaps also discharging them deeper than you should to get the best life per battery dollar spent. By now you should know, at least roughly, how many Amp-hours of daily cycling you use. With that info you can calculate the size of your required bank. You should have a bank capacity rating equal to the daily Amp-hour use divided by 0.35 if you recharge by running a charger once per day.

If you have a battery monitor you DO NOT need to have two banks of batteries. Why? Because for a given Amp-hour discharge cycle a single bank will deliver more energy than will the same amount of Amp-hour rating divided into two banks and used alternately. One main reason for this is because when that rating is divided into two you are forced to deliver your load currents from TWICE the internal battery resistance (or worse when considering secondary effects).

Knowing the required bank size you then can calculate the required size of the charge source to recharge for a minimum amount of generator or engine run time. With an adjustable three-step charge regulator you need a current source about equal to the number of Amp-hours used on your daily cycle.

After running these numbers for several years and for many cruisers an "average" set of numbers keep appearing: 400 Amp-hour rated house bank and a 165A to 200A alternator (obviously a large frame one or two 100A small frame ones).

Whether or not you use Trojan batteries or others you will only be able to slightly alter your battery life, all other things being equal. You will NOT be able to double your battery life unless you have previously bought really bad quality batteries.

Regards,
Rick
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Old 02-02-2005, 10:49   #6
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I did buy cheap batteries. They were from Sam's 8D wet cell starting battries for $99. each. I would do it again, they lasted better than I had hoped for the use we had. Now we need better, are the Rolls worth the money? 8D's are about $1000. each.
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Old 02-02-2005, 12:06   #7
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Hey Rick!, could you comment on the new Battery technology, Calcium Calcium. I have no clue as to how that works. I have two new ones fitted to engine start duty, and so far have been very impressed with there performance. But what am I missing if anything. Will they work in a house bank system? They have an enourmouse Ahr capacity for there size, but will they handle deep cycles.
Plus, you may have missed another thread in which I asked about having one charger, say a good quality Solar regulator/charger and being able to switch in other power supply sources. e.g. Alternator, shore power etc could be switched over as supply source when required, but only one charge regulator connected to the bank. Any thoughts???
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Old 02-02-2005, 13:21   #8
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I went the Rolls route

They are pricey no question however the plates are thicker than anything else out there. Their new batteries which have the funky mushroom shaped 'Hydorcap' really works.

I have an 880 Ahr bank of 2 volt cells in a series parallel configuration and only add water 2X per year max. Only exception is when I equalize which you have to do with the caps off. Rolls has a number of options and I figured spending more once would pay off long term. They are currently about 4 years old and still running at 98% effeciency according to my Link 2000R.

I also have a seperate starting bank which is two group 31s. But they are cheap starting batteries.
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Old 03-02-2005, 04:28   #9
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I have sold either automotive or marine batteries for close to 15 years now. Over the years, I have sold just about every brand name imaginable ... we carry Trojan batteries where I work now, and they have by far the lowest amount of problems (batteries returned) of any brand I have ever seen.
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Old 03-02-2005, 10:01   #10
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A few notes

For cruising sailors who actually go to sea I would not recommend the use of hydrocaps. Hydrocaps work using a calalytic reaction which generates heat, sufficient enough to melt the plastic housing if they get wet due to rolling and pitching that causes slopping of the electrolyte into the bottom of the caps. I have seen them melt so badly that they actually closed off the air to the cell and that could be very bad. Hydrocaps were intended for stationary battery bank use only.

Rolls batteries are, in general, not the best solution for modern cruising sailors who use heavy loads such as power inverters, and windlasses and desire to have minimum space and weight for the batteries installed. The main reason is that they have just about the highest internal resistance that I have measured for a battery, pound for pound. As a result a user suffers a lower terminal voltage under heavy loads and a wider fluctuation of operating voltages in general. I'll take a Trojan any time and for those who design their systems with good regulators and charge sources the AGM and GEL batteries are even better yet. Why spend extra money and have to dedicate more space and weight unnecessarily?

Alan,
I do advocate using a multiplicity of charging sources on one battery bank. One difficulty is that if one desires to have what is called "source current or power sharing" it is necessary to provide some means of controlling each source with a master (one method). There are new power contolling techniques in the technology which allows independent power contribution yet I have not seen those methods used in the solar regulator, marine charger, alternator regulator markets.

Without such regulation controlls the various charge sources will put out varying percentages of total power available when maximum power is needed depending upon their regulator settings (in the case of needing a bulk charge, for example).

During float conditions it will not matter as long as a proper float voltage is achieved. For cruisers who use multiple alternators or multiple chargers with a generator to achieve minimum engine run times it is impossible to set independent regulators and have power source sharing equally. At least in the case of multiple alternators it is sometimes possible to use one regulator to control more than one field winding if the belting ratios and alternators are identical.

Regards,
Rick
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Old 03-02-2005, 10:46   #11
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Thanks Rick. WOW! it is obviousely more complicated than I imagined. Talking to a mate the other day, we both have technical backgrounds, but niether of us realised a simple DC system could be so complex. Errr, and expensive
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Old 23-08-2005, 02:21   #12
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to irwinsailor:

hi my name is paul son and i would like to introduce you to a new product. this product is battery saver that extends the life of an original battery for up to 3 times it's life expectancy!

the website for this battery savber is http://www.wellbalanceamerica.com

you are welcome to test this product out for free and see the benefits that this product has to offer. all you have to take care of is the shipping and handling charges. if you're interested, please email me at aspintech@yahoo.com. thank you.
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Old 23-08-2005, 11:01   #13
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What is the Well Balance?
I cannot open your 'demonstration'
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Old 23-08-2005, 11:15   #14
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Yeah same here.

Is it a chemical (snake oil) or some electronic gizzmo?

Sure would like to get one if it can improve my fuel econmy by 15%.
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Old 23-08-2005, 14:45   #15
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I use......

I use cow magnets on all of my wires to help align the electrons for better and faster flow for recharging....

and if you believe that I have a brand new boat for sale for 50 bucks.

Could this just be a smart regulator in new packaging?????
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