Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 10-09-2017, 22:43   #106
Registered User
 
daletournier's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Seychelles
Boat: Catalina 470
Posts: 1,577
Re: New Balmar Alternator Charging Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeepFrz View Post
So, has anyone tried the fan/blower cooling the alternator to see if that works or not?
Its my next project.
__________________

__________________
daletournier is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 26-09-2017, 12:09   #107
Jd1
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Victoria, BC
Boat: Catalina 36 MKII
Posts: 1,062
Re: New Balmar Alternator Charging Question

A couple of recently discovered details I was not previously aware of ....
Setup is AT-200 alternator, MC-614 regulator.

#1, Belt load manager: The manual states (for example for B-9) "Field reduction 63%"
I used to interpret this as "the field is reduced ***BY*** 63% but have reason to believe that it should be interpreted as "the field is reduced ***TO*** 63%. I have an inquiry in to Balmar to confirm.

#2, Diode pack temperatures: I have now seen situations of diode pack temperatures exceeding 70C ABOVE frame temperature (which is what the regulator monitors).
While default max frame temperature is 100C, I have seen people set up for higher temperatures to get more charging current. Before you increase the maximum temperature setpoint, think about the poor diodes and the reduced service life they will see !
Due to limitations of my testing setup, I can not test any actual temperatures above about 127C so there is a bit of interpretation involved but if your alternator frame is at 55C and the diode pack is at 127C, you start to wonder !!!!
__________________

__________________
Jd1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-09-2017, 12:14   #108
Sponsoring Vendor
 
OceanPlanet's Avatar

Community Sponsor

Join Date: May 2009
Location: Woolwich, Maine
Boat: Sold it!
Posts: 385
Send a message via Skype™ to OceanPlanet
Re: New Balmar Alternator Charging Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jd1 View Post
A couple of recently discovered details I was not previously aware of ....
Setup is AT-200 alternator, MC-614 regulator.

#1, Belt load manager: The manual states (for example for B-9) "Field reduction 63%"
I used to interpret this as "the field is reduced ***BY*** 63% but have reason to believe that it should be interpreted as "the field is reduced ***TO*** 63%. I have an inquiry in to Balmar to confirm.

#2, Diode pack temperatures: I have now seen situations of diode pack temperatures exceeding 70C ABOVE frame temperature (which is what the regulator monitors).
While default max frame temperature is 100C, I have seen people set up for higher temperatures to get more charging current. Before you increase the maximum temperature setpoint, think about the poor diodes and the reduced service life they will see !
Due to limitations of my testing setup, I can not test any actual temperatures above about 127C so there is a bit of interpretation involved but if your alternator frame is at 55C and the diode pack is at 127C, you start to wonder !!!!
This is why we like the Mark Grasser external rectifiers, which we like to use on most small-case alts. With the heat off the alt they can run at full or near full field! The difference is amazing.
__________________
Twice around was enough for me...
Now I just help others prep for ocean trips...
www.bruceschwab.com
OceanPlanet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-09-2017, 12:32   #109
Registered User
 
Stu Jackson's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Cowichan Bay, BC (Maple Bay Marina)
Posts: 6,263
Re: New Balmar Alternator Charging Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jd1 View Post
A couple of recently discovered details I was not previously aware of ....
Setup is AT-200 alternator, MC-614 regulator.

#1, Belt load manager: The manual states (for example for B-9) "Field reduction 63%"
I used to interpret this as "the field is reduced ***BY*** 63% but have reason to believe that it should be interpreted as "the field is reduced ***TO*** 63%. I have an inquiry in to Balmar to confirm.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
My MC-612 manual page 11 states:

...hold switch with magnetic tool. Display will decrement through percentage values (98, 96, 94, and so on).
Release when the desired percentage is indicated.

Check some other references in your manual. I always thought it meant TO, that that is why. ^^^^
__________________
Stu Jackson
Catalina 34 #224 (1986) C34IA Secretary
Cowichan Bay, BC, (Maple Bay Marina) SR/FK, M25, Rocna 10 (22#) (NZ model)
Stu Jackson is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 26-09-2017, 13:07   #110
Jd1
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Victoria, BC
Boat: Catalina 36 MKII
Posts: 1,062
Re: New Balmar Alternator Charging Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stu Jackson View Post
My MC-612 manual page 11 states:

...hold switch with magnetic tool. Display will decrement through percentage values (98, 96, 94, and so on).
Release when the desired percentage is indicated.

Check some other references in your manual. I always thought it meant TO, that that is why. ^^^^
Interesting ... the 614 does not give percentage figures, they give a single digit 0 to 9.

So I went and looked at the newest manual for the 614 on line and sure as shootin' the thing has changed substantially. The newest manual says 'field reduction 45%' for belt manager #9
__________________
Jd1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-09-2017, 14:18   #111
Registered User
 
zboss's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: On a boat
Boat: Cabo Rico 38
Posts: 3,387
Re: New Balmar Alternator Charging Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jd1 View Post
Interesting ... the 614 does not give percentage figures, they give a single digit 0 to 9.

So I went and looked at the newest manual for the 614 on line and sure as shootin' the thing has changed substantially. The newest manual says 'field reduction 45%' for belt manager #9
and what the heck does THAT mean? Reducing BY 45% or TO 45%?
__________________
zboss is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-09-2017, 14:34   #112
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Marina del Rey
Boat: Hunter 31
Posts: 381
Re: New Balmar Alternator Charging Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jd1 View Post

#1, Belt load manager: The manual states (for example for B-9) "Field reduction 63%"

#2, Diode pack temperatures: Before you increase the maximum temperature setpoint, think about the poor diodes and the reduced service life they will see !
Easiest way to check on the belt manager is to measure the output current with or without and measure the decrease.

I would not worry about the diodes as much. Do what is necessary to service your loads.
__________________
Pizzazz is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 26-09-2017, 14:46   #113
Jd1
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Victoria, BC
Boat: Catalina 36 MKII
Posts: 1,062
Re: New Balmar Alternator Charging Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by zboss View Post
and what the heck does THAT mean? Reducing BY 45% or TO 45%?
LOL ... I read that as 'field strength reduced by 45% .... or you get 55% of the output rating of the alternator"

Which corresponds to the measured figures.

The highest reduction is half output which is what you get when you short the alternator temperature sensor leads together and then it goes in 5% step increases in power up to full output at belt load manager level 0.

Yes, I guess you could interpret either official description either way I guess but at least to me the new version is clearer
__________________
Jd1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-09-2017, 14:50   #114
Jd1
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Victoria, BC
Boat: Catalina 36 MKII
Posts: 1,062
Re: New Balmar Alternator Charging Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pizzazz View Post
I would not worry about the diodes as much. Do what is necessary to service your loads.
OK .... each to their own ..... I am fairly confident that ignoring things is NOT a good way to keep your repair budget under control ! Crank that puppy right up to full output, increase allowable alternator temperature while you are at it and see what happens
__________________
Jd1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-09-2017, 15:16   #115
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 1,859
Re: New Balmar Alternator Charging Question

I believe each reduction is about 3%, starting from 100% and that they are compounding.

Roughly, no one needs to calculate to three decimal places and then test with a very accurately calibrated Fluke ammeter to check whether I'm right.

(opposite, I'd love to see someone do that! 8-)
__________________

__________________
john61ct is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
alternator, balmar, charging

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Balmar 614 regulator / Balmar Alternator help Strait Shooter Electrical: Batteries, Generators & Solar 16 25-08-2015 13:08
Balmar MC-614-H Alternator Regulator question qwerty_steve Electrical: Batteries, Generators & Solar 20 30-05-2015 10:20
New Balmar Alternator Problems svstrider Electrical: Batteries, Generators & Solar 41 20-08-2013 14:42
For Sale: NEW Balmar Alternator 100 amp Yanmar Package with Regulator Boatguy30 Classifieds Archive 3 08-09-2011 06:06
Balmar ARS-4 Smart Regulator Under-Charging New Batteries adamwible Electrical: Batteries, Generators & Solar 4 16-12-2010 07:44



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 10:11.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.