New Balmar Alternator Charging Question

[iancoombe]

The white wire is the temp sensor on mine, not sure if it can be disconnected or spaced to to give a lower temp reading

[john61ct]

That's for bank temp, should directly attached to battery positive terminal, right?

I assume the diode/VR temps are measured internally?

[iancoombe]

Originally Posted by john61ct

That's for bank temp, should directly attached to battery positive terminal, right?

I assume the diode/VR temps are measured internally?

No this is attached to the body and has a sensor in it, old model belmar .

[john61ct]

I went back to review for context.

Why not just derate further?

Do you have an LFP bank?

Are you burning dino juice **just** to recharge the bank? Or is it also getting other stuff done that needs doing anyway?

[deluxe68]

Originally Posted by john61ct

I went back to review for context.

Why not just derate further?

Do you have an LFP bank?

Are you burning dino juice **just** to recharge the bank? Or is it also getting other stuff done that needs doing anyway?

If you read the whole thread you would see that I am going to de-rate down to 35-40%. AGM batteries. Running engine to charge batteries and get hot water for shower.

[daletournier]

Originally Posted by deluxe68

We were back on the boat for a week and de-rated at the regulator by 28%. At a high idle (2000RPM) the alternator would put out 133 amps for just a few minutes before heating up to 100C and automatically derating by 1/2 to 65 amps. After 5 minutes it would jump up to 130 amps until it got too hot. All on bulk mode charging. When it got to absorption it settled at 60 amps, cannot remember the temperature.

Called Balmar and they said it was probably due to being installed in a closed area. I said that I did not know of any sailboats that had their engines out in the open. Their reply was that lots of powerboats have open engine compartments. I also asked what the cutoff for engine room temperature was and got no answer. They offered to look at the unit if I shipped it back. Since I am 3,000 miles away I would have to pay the yard to remove and box it. Another $300 down the drain. I asked if they test the alternators on a boat they said no, on a bench at room temp.

Next step is derate the piece of junk by 35-40% and look at adding forced air cooling just for the alternator. I will get some baseline engine room temps before I start any adjustments or other modifications.

If only my new alternator/ reg setup was that good!! My 100amp unit will put out 70ish for a couple of minutes when running at 2000rpm then back of to anywhere between 10-30amp, I estimate I have a 20-30amp low output alternator!!!
On my last boat I had the balmar setup, it would put in 50-60amp constantly with no problem and this was all my batteries needed. My current setup is very frustrating, im waiting for some replys from both supplier and manufacturer.

[deluxe68]

Originally Posted by daletournier

If only my new alternator/ reg setup was that good!! My 100amp unit will put out 70ish for a couple of minutes when running at 2000rpm then back of to anywhere between 10-30amp, I estimate I have a 20-30amp low output alternator!!!
On my last boat I had the balmar setup, it would put in 50-60amp constantly with no problem and this was all my batteries needed. My current setup is very frustrating, im waiting for some replys from both supplier and manufacturer.

Sounds like your alternator is overheating and derating itself. My original Hitachi 80 amp alternator did the dame thing, I was told that it did that because it had an on-board regulator. Supposedly, going to an external regulator setup was supposed to be a cure-all.

[deluxe68]

Originally Posted by iancoombe

The white wire is the temp sensor on mine, not sure if it can be disconnected or spaced to to give a lower temp reading

Wouldn't you risk frying the alternator?

[kenbo]

Originally Posted by deluxe68

If you read the whole thread you would see that I am going to de-rate down to 35-40%. AGM batteries. Running engine to charge batteries and get hot water for shower.

It seems that your AGM batteries have a very low internal resistance. You bought your alternator to recharge quickly but have been stymied by heat build up. BTW Delco Remy back in the 80's tested and decided that small case alternators as designed and built cannot dissipate the heat from more than 100A. That's why the 12SI topped out at 96A. I know, better case design, dual internal fans, hairpin wound stators...how's that working out for you?

I think Bruce Schwab gave you a solution, disconnect the internal bridge rectifier and install a remote, actively vented bridge rectifier. Mark Grasser's product is well executed but pricey. A less expensive alternative can be found here https://alternatorparts.com/quicktif...rectifier.html.

For the past 5 years I have run a Delco 10SI custom wound and built 105A alternator with the 210v quicktifier and can put out 100A for hours and never go above 170° F case temp. I do not use external voltage regulation. I have a 14.7vset internal regulator without temperature compensation. I see no need for Balmar's VR since I do not have to derate and I never use the 3rd stage...float. I wish I had battery temp compensation, that would be ideal but I don't believe that feature is worth the cost of the Balmar VR. I think the Balmar VR cost more than my entire charging system.

[john61ct]

Originally Posted by deluxe68

If you read the whole thread you would see that I am going to de-rate down to 35-40%. AGM batteries. Running engine to charge batteries and get hot water for shower.

With a lead bank the falling acceptance rate makes heroic measures like ventilation mods less worthwhile.

With a good SoC meter you could make sure you just don't draw down so much before recharging.

Do you use solar for the long tail, once amps start really dropping?

[kenbo]

Since I don't charge much over 100A I was able to keep my single 1/2" belt and the Delco internal voltage regulators do have excellent battery voltage sense capability.

Doesn't it seem counterproductive to buy a high amp, small case alternator, belt kit, external voltage regulator and temp sensors to only derate the whole thing to output of a 1980's alternator?

[daletournier]

Originally Posted by deluxe68

Sounds like your alternator is overheating and derating itself. My original Hitachi 80 amp alternator did the dame thing, I was told that it did that because it had an on-board regulator. Supposedly, going to an external regulator setup was supposed to be a cure-all.

The alternator has a internal reg but its been disconnected as part of the smart reg install. Fairly confident its just a over mothering reg, if I take the front of the engine compartment off then its much better, no problem doing this while underway ,if I wear ear muffs inside.. lol.

As someone mentioned earlier, most modern boats have a fairly cramped engine area, mine has a blower inside. Surely manufactures understand this.

[DeepFrz]

Get one of these and try directing the output onto the alternator. If it works, as it has for others, great. If it doesn't work well you haven't spent much money on it and it will probably help in other ways. I'm sure it will work much better than continually moaning over your poor alternator output.

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Attwood-T...-Volt/14150764

Oops, forgot the link.

[Stu Jackson]

I post these every time this discussion comes up:

Alternator heat, Regulator Controls, Small Engine Mode

Alternator heat, Regulator Controls, Small Engine Mode

Small Engine Mode - discussion with link to the picture of the toggle switch: Alternator heat, Regulator Controls, Small Engine Mode

Small Engine Mode - the picture of the toggle switch Alternator Output Management with External Regulators [Small Engine Mode]


********************

It is a SYSTEM. Once one learns how the parts work, one can accommodate the loads, the parts (alternators getting too hot, belts slipping), and the regulation (amp or belt manager vs./and/or in conjunction with Small Engine Mode).

[deluxe68]

Originally Posted by kenbo

It seems that your AGM batteries have a very low internal resistance. You bought your alternator to recharge quickly but have been stymied by heat build up. BTW Delco Remy back in the 80's tested and decided that small case alternators as designed and built cannot dissipate the heat from more than 100A. That's why the 12SI topped out at 96A. I know, better case design, dual internal fans, hairpin wound stators...how's that working out for you?

I think Bruce Schwab gave you a solution, disconnect the internal bridge rectifier and install a remote, actively vented bridge rectifier. Mark Grasser's product is well executed but pricey. A less expensive alternative can be found here https://alternatorparts.com/quicktif...rectifier.html.

For the past 5 years I have run a Delco 10SI custom wound and built 105A alternator with the 210v quicktifier and can put out 100A for hours and never go above 170° F case temp. I do not use external voltage regulation. I have a 14.7vset internal regulator without temperature compensation. I see no need for Balmar's VR since I do not have to derate and I never use the 3rd stage...float. I wish I had battery temp compensation, that would be ideal but I don't believe that feature is worth the cost of the Balmar VR. I think the Balmar VR cost more than my entire charging system.

Great idea on the Mark Grasser remote rectifier, except the web site states that it has to be purchased at the same time as the alternator.