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Old 09-11-2014, 11:14   #16
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Re: New Alternator Need Ext Regulator?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BriRich View Post
I will check out the internet for a single line wiring diagram.

Many thanks

Brian
Basic Battery Wiring Diagrams This is a very good basic primer for boat system wiring: Basic Battery Wiring Diagrams

This is another very good basic primer for boat system wiring: The 1-2-B Switch by Maine Sail (brings together a lot of what this subject is all about)
1/BOTH/2/OFF Switches Thoughts & Musings - SailboatOwners.com
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Old 09-11-2014, 13:16   #17
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Re: New Alternator Need Ext Regulator?

Not wanting to hijack the thread but I have a related question. I have a newly installed 80 amp internally regulated alternator on my Yanmar 4JHE with a house bank of 4 golf cart batteries totaling 460 ah nominal. With the engine running I'm seeing 14.5-14.7 volts as measured by my B&G Network instruments and my LinkLite battery monitor. I charge with a 40 amp charger and a Honda 2000 while on the hook. My question is when motoring for a long time, 12 hours or more, will I overcharge and damage my batteries?
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Old 09-11-2014, 18:04   #18
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Re: New Alternator Need Ext Regulator?

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Originally Posted by Tayana42 View Post
Not wanting to hijack the thread but I have a related question. I have a newly installed 80 amp internally regulated alternator on my Yanmar 4JHE with a house bank of 4 golf cart batteries totaling 460 ah nominal. With the engine running I'm seeing 14.5-14.7 volts as measured by my B&G Network instruments and my LinkLite battery monitor. I charge with a 40 amp charger and a Honda 2000 while on the hook. My question is when motoring for a long time, 12 hours or more, will I overcharge and damage my batteries?
No, you will not\ overcharge your battery bank.
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Old 09-11-2014, 18:19   #19
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Re: New Alternator Need Ext Regulator?

Balmar makes an alternator controller that can handle multiple battery banks and smart charge. It will taper off when full charge is reached. This is best for the batteries and reduces drag on your engine. Their alternators are expensive but, as noted by others, you can obtain an unregulated truck alternator and use the Balmar to operate it.

20145DDC

I suggest you call them to make sure you fully understand the bits & their function.
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Old 09-11-2014, 18:24   #20
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Re: New Alternator Need Ext Regulator?

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Balmar makes an alternator controller that can handle multiple battery banks and smart charge. It will taper off when full charge is reached. This is best for the batteries and reduces drag on your engine. Their alternators are expensive but, as noted by others, you can obtain an unregulated truck alternator and use the Balmar to operate it.

20145DDC
The Balmar Duo Charge is not an alternator controller. It is a battery to battery charger similar to a Xantrex Echo Charge but with more options and is 30 amps vs Xantrex @ 15 amps.
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Old 09-11-2014, 18:34   #21
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Re: New Alternator Need Ext Regulator?

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Originally Posted by Tayana42 View Post
Not wanting to hijack the thread but I have a related question. I have a newly installed 80 amp internally regulated alternator on my Yanmar 4JHE with a house bank of 4 golf cart batteries totaling 460 ah nominal. With the engine running I'm seeing 14.5-14.7 volts as measured by my B&G Network instruments and my LinkLite battery monitor. I charge with a 40 amp charger and a Honda 2000 while on the hook. My question is when motoring for a long time, 12 hours or more, will I overcharge and damage my batteries?
NO:

Overcharging with Combiners or ACRs The MYTH:
Overcharging Batteries with a Combiner or ACR

Also:

Hitachi/Yanmar Alternators: (by Maine Sail)

Some alternators though, such as those made by Hitachi and found on Yanmar diesels, are dumber than a pound of beetle poop. Actually, to the alternator, they are pretty smart but to your batteries and the speed of charging they are flat out stupid. Why?

Hitachi alts with dumb regulators, and some others, limit voltage but also reduce voltage based on alternator temperature. This is a self protective feature installed in the internal dumb regulator to prevent the alternator from cooking itself. Remember voltage is the pressure that allows more current to flow. So, if we reduce the absorbtion voltage, then we also reduce the current the alternator is supplying.. The battery simply will not accept the same current at 13.4V that it did at 14.4V and as a result the alternator will run cooler. What do you suppose this does to your batteries over time.......?

The problem is that when cold you will get 14.3V to 14.4V out of the Hitachi but as the alternator heats up the dumb regulator begins to reduce the CV/voltage limit based on the alternators internal temperature. It is not uncommon to find a Hitachi alternator at 13.4V when hot. This is REALLY, REALLY DUMB....

If you have a dumb regulator, and notice the voltage dropping, it is likely a temp compensated dumb regulator. Get rid of it or plan to buy new batteries more often.

If you have a temp compensated alternator or a Hitachi alternator on a Yanmar you really are in dire need of external regulation if deep cycling a larger battery bank.

This is from:

Musings Regarding External Regulation - SailboatOwners.com

and this, too:

Hitachi Alternator and Smart Regulator Instal Question
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Old 09-11-2014, 18:45   #22
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Re: New Alternator Need Ext Regulator?

What has been said many times in this forum is that stock alternators are meant, mainly, to charge the start battery and run light loads. They are also fine for charging small house banks if not to deeply discharged. Maine Sail recommends that one purchase a lager alternator than one really needs and throttle it back. Say a 100 amp alternator throttled back to 80 amp max. This can be done with a Balmar (for one) external regulator. The alternator runs cool and happy and will put out constant 80 amps until the battery acceptance drops below that level.
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Old 09-11-2014, 19:25   #23
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Re: New Alternator Need Ext Regulator?

There are more things to be considered than the ones mentioned in this thread. Nobody has mentioned belt type or size. You cannot run more than an 80A alternator on a 1/2 inch Vbelt. More than that and your belts will make a lot of dust, and if tensioned so as to slip at high loads, damage water pump bearings. So if you want to run a high output alternator reliably you either need a serpentine belt or double belts.
Referring to the previous post. It is a good thing that internal regulators have over temperature protection. It keeps the alternator from frying itself.
If you put a smart(external) regulator(without temperature sensing) on an automotive alternator you will destroy the alternator.
There is a company "Ample Power" that has a lot of interesting information on this topic. The gentleman states that a hot rated alternator should be able to take full field voltage(12v) without overheating. In order to achieve this the alternator must have a large built in fan to keep itself cool.
An alternate way to keep the alternator from self destruction due to overheating is to have an external regulator with an alternator temperature input that will back off on the field voltage when the temperature goes too high. This is exactly what the internal regulators will do.
The belt saver feature on the Balmar maxcharge is also a field diminishing mechanism that limits charging current output so as to limit the load on the alternator belt.
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Old 12-11-2014, 06:01   #24
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Re: New Alternator Need Ext Regulator?

We have a Yanmar GM30F. I replaced the original alternator with an Electromax 140 A alternator, 1" serpentine belt kit, Balmar external regulator with alt and battery temp probes. The alt is wired directly to the 400 AHr AGM house bank through a fuse, an Echo charger keeps the emergency start AGM battery charged. We are very happy with this set up. Just what we need for our use of the boat.

We always start the diesel off the house bank, the 110 AHr emergency battery is really just there in case of a house bank issue.

We are very happy with this setup for us. The AGMs take advantage of the high output alternator. Programming the external regulator is a bit tricky, Maine Sail provided me with the set up for my installation.

Having a regulator built into the alternator is a good thing, the external regulator can fail and internal regulator will get you home.

I would buy the alternator, belt kit, external regulator from the same vendor as you may need some support installing, hooking it all up and programming the regulator. Checkout the vendors website for manuals, schematics etc on line.

Good luck, Bob
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