Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 18-05-2015, 02:36   #16
Registered User
 
d4raffy's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Med
Boat: Sunbeam 44
Posts: 110
Re: Need to charge three banks but wants to get rid of the battery isolator

Quote:
Originally Posted by btrayfors View Post
You raise a good point, i.e., shipping some "good amps" to the windlass and/or bow thruster from the engine/alternator when running. That, of course normally requires running a battery charger from shore power or an onboard generator unless there's a wired direct run from the house battery bank.

I have the same draw on my boat....upwards of 100 amps or more at times when raising the anchor. My windlass battery bank consists of two Trojan T-105s which, without supplement, are perfectly capable of lowering and raising the anchor multiple times (200ft of 3/8" HT chain with a 45lb anchor). I like this because I like often to come to anchor and leave from an anchorage under sail alone, without starting the engine.

Whenever I do need to supplement the power available from these batteries, I can run the generator to power the 55A Iota charger which is dedicated to the windlass batteries OR I can power this charger from the 2500 watt Victron inverter, preferably with the engine running.

Different strokes for different folks!!

Bill
I understand your reasoning Bill. I wish i had the room and nerve to sail out of the anchorages in Croatia :-)) .... i seem to attracted Charter boats like a magnet ... i hope they don't think i know what I'm doing ... :-))

Sounds like the optimal solution is to have :
1. Some form of 'intelligent' independent charging for each bank from 240/120v or 12/24 Service Bank. The higher amp rated the better.
2. The ability to direct connect the Windlass / Thruster bank to make use of the alternator output - obvoiusly when the engine is running - as required. Of course, you need the right cable run for that.

I'm going to review my solution again....... especially as i have a mix of AGM's and Gel....
__________________

__________________
d4raffy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-05-2015, 04:54   #17
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Chesapeake Region and Maine
Boat: 42' Bob Perry sloop
Posts: 4,038
Images: 4
Re: Need to charge three banks but wants to get rid of the battery isolator

Quote:
Originally Posted by SFH View Post
Bill,

Out of curiosity I checked out the IOTA supply/charger. Why did you select this one?
What happens if you draw more than the 55A for e.g. a truster?

Steen
Steen,

I used the DLS-55/IQ4 because I had it. Actually, I have three Iota chargers at the moment, and have installed lots more on customers boats.

No problem at all if you draw more than 55A....the rest of the needed amps come from the battery!

Iota makes a full line of smart chargers from 15A to 90A. A good source for them is Northern Arizona Wind and Sun: http://www.solar-electric.com/catalogsearch/result/?q=IOTA+chargers&cat=0
Bill
__________________

__________________
btrayfors is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-05-2015, 05:44   #18
Marine Service Provider
 
Maine Sail's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Maine
Boat: CS-36T - Cupecoy
Posts: 3,065
Re: Need to charge three banks but wants to get rid of the battery isolator

Quote:
Originally Posted by btrayfors View Post
You raise a good point, i.e., shipping some "good amps" to the windlass and/or bow thruster from the engine/alternator when running. That, of course normally requires running a battery charger from shore power or an onboard generator unless there's a wired direct run from the house battery bank.

I have the same draw on my boat....upwards of 100 amps or more at times when raising the anchor. My windlass battery bank consists of two Trojan T-105s which, without supplement, are perfectly capable of lowering and raising the anchor multiple times (200ft of 3/8" HT chain with a 45lb anchor). I like this because I like often to come to anchor and leave from an anchorage under sail alone, without starting the engine.

Whenever I do need to supplement the power available from these batteries, I can run the generator to power the 55A Iota charger which is dedicated to the windlass batteries OR I can power this charger from the 2500 watt Victron inverter, preferably with the engine running.

Different strokes for different folks!!

Bill
Bill,

For doing high draw DC thrusters I really like the Blue Sea ML-500 ACR latching ACR relays. They offer a dash mounted switch to:

Manually Combine
Automatically Combine
Turn Off

Usually the switch just remains in AUTO and it acts as an ACR but when running a thruster you can simply flip it to "manually combine" and now your thruster bank gets much larger and the alt can kick in too. This does require a large positive and negative wire to the bow but for really high amp thrusters works quite well.
__________________
Marine How To Articles
Maine Sail is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 18-05-2015, 05:50   #19
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Chesapeake Region and Maine
Boat: 42' Bob Perry sloop
Posts: 4,038
Images: 4
Re: Need to charge three banks but wants to get rid of the battery isolator

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maine Sail View Post
Bill,

For doing high draw DC thrusters I really like the Blue Sea ML-500 ACR latching ACR relays. They offer a dash mounted switch to:

Manually Combine
Automatically Combine
Turn Off

Usually the switch just remains in AUTO and it acts as an ACR but when running a thruster you can simply flip it to "manually combine" and now your thruster bank gets much larger and the alt can kick in too. This does require a large positive and negative wire to the bow but for really high amp thrusters works quite well.
Yup, I agree. Really good solution IF you want/have the "large positive and negative wires" leading to the bow.

Bill
__________________
btrayfors is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-05-2015, 07:45   #20
Registered User
 
d4raffy's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Med
Boat: Sunbeam 44
Posts: 110
Re: Need to charge three banks but wants to get rid of the battery isolator

Quote:
Originally Posted by SFH View Post

Currently I have a Cristec MOSFET battery splitter (with three outputs) supplying my three banks:
I am assuming the OP must have this cable run for his original 100 amp splitter ... ?
__________________
d4raffy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-05-2015, 08:17   #21
SFH
Registered User
 
SFH's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Danish
Boat: Jeanneau Yacht 53
Posts: 75
Send a message via Skype™ to SFH
Re: Need to charge three banks but wants to get rid of the battery isolator

Quote:
Originally Posted by d4raffy View Post
Sounds like the optimal solution is to have :
1. Some form of 'intelligent' independent charging for each bank from 240/120v or 12/24 Service Bank. The higher amp rated the better.
2. The ability to direct connect the Windlass / Thruster bank to make use of the alternator output - obvoiusly when the engine is running - as required. Of course, you need the right cable run for that.

.
d4Raffy,

The windlass on my Jeanneau Yacht 53 only works when the engine is running - i.e. is powered from the alternator.

Share your other comments regarding charging the truster battery pack

Steen
__________________
SFH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-05-2015, 10:05   #22
Registered User
 
d4raffy's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Med
Boat: Sunbeam 44
Posts: 110
Re: Need to charge three banks but wants to get rid of the battery isolator

Quote:
Originally Posted by SFH View Post
d4Raffy,

The windlass on my Jeanneau Yacht 53 only works when the engine is running - i.e. is powered from the alternator.

Share your other comments regarding charging the truster battery pack

Steen
OK, my bad - i see some confusion. In your original post you only mention a dedicated bank for your Thruster. On my boat I have a dedicated battery 110ah AGM right up front for both Thruster and Windlass. it takes the peak loads, doesn't weigh to much, and is a fail-safe if needed without the engine. Normally tho .... the engine is running and i have a heavy duty cable from my alternator setup to the battery up front. This normally 'squirts' 90 odd amps down the line to be used for the Windlass or Thruster and recharge the battery. It seems to work ok....
I also have a Quick 240v Charger that charges all three banks independently - Service, Windlass&Thruster and Engine when connected to shore power or on Generator.
My only issue is that the Quick Charger and my Alternator charging assumes all batteries have the same charging profile - but i actually have a mix of Gel and AGM's. So i need to think that thru some more.... using Bill's ideas and maybe a Relay, as per Maine. I have a Smart Gauge installed - so may look at their relays but the Blue Sea ACR looks good...

Not sure if that helps you or not ......
__________________
d4raffy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-05-2015, 12:26   #23
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: canada
Posts: 1,701
Re: Need to charge three banks but wants to get rid of the battery isolator

I have installed a bunch of these


they even have an alt reg sense connection for best alt control.


ProlsoCharge Series | ProMariner




I would have a way to charge from both AC (shore / gen) and engine on the boat.
__________________
smac999 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-05-2015, 12:30   #24
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: canada
Posts: 1,701
Re: Need to charge three banks but wants to get rid of the battery isolator

Quote:
Originally Posted by SFH View Post
d4Raffy,

The windlass on my Jeanneau Yacht 53 only works when the engine is running - i.e. is powered from the alternator.

Share your other comments regarding charging the truster battery pack

Steen

I bet it's on a solenoid controlled by the ignition. it's not directly powered by the alt. try turning your key "on" but engine not running and see if your windlass works. is it off your starter bank or thruster bank?
__________________
smac999 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-05-2015, 14:17   #25
SFH
Registered User
 
SFH's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Danish
Boat: Jeanneau Yacht 53
Posts: 75
Send a message via Skype™ to SFH
Re: Need to charge three banks but wants to get rid of the battery isolator

Quote:
Originally Posted by smac999 View Post
I bet it's on a solenoid controlled by the ignition. it's not directly powered by the alt. try turning your key "on" but engine not running and see if your windlass works. is it off your starter bank or thruster bank?
You are right. Had the same thought this afternoon and checked the schematics.

Since I already have the wires running I guess the relay proposed by Maine Sail would be the right solution in combination with a local 230VA truster battery pack charger

Steen
__________________
SFH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-05-2015, 04:09   #26
Registered User
 
d4raffy's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Med
Boat: Sunbeam 44
Posts: 110
Re: Need to charge three banks but wants to get rid of the battery isolator

Quote:
Originally Posted by SFH View Post
You are right. Had the same thought this afternoon and checked the schematics.



Since I already have the wires running I guess the relay proposed by Maine Sail would be the right solution in combination with a local 230VA truster battery pack charger



Steen

Are you sure your current shore power charger doesn't charge the Thruster bank already ?
If it was a factory fit - it's normal practice to wire it in......


Sent from my iPad using Cruisers Sailing Forum
__________________
d4raffy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-05-2015, 07:03   #27
SFH
Registered User
 
SFH's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Danish
Boat: Jeanneau Yacht 53
Posts: 75
Send a message via Skype™ to SFH
Re: Need to charge three banks but wants to get rid of the battery isolator

Quote:
Originally Posted by d4raffy View Post
Are you sure your current shore power charger doesn't charge the Thruster bank already ?
If it was a factory fit - it's normal practice to wire it in......


Sent from my iPad using Cruisers Sailing Forum
d4Raffy,
The shore charger (80A) is charging the truster batteries (OPTIMA RED TOP batteries) but I often get low voltage alarm.

I want to get rid of the Cristec MOSFET 100A 3-splitter since it cant handle the load from the Balmar AT-165 and replace it with a setup that improves charging of my truster battery pack in the bov: Faster and with an optimal charge profile matching the three different batpacks instead of "one fits all"

Steen
__________________
SFH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-05-2015, 08:42   #28
Marine Service Provider

Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: South Carolina
Boat: Philip Rhodes Custom
Posts: 395
Re: Need to charge three banks but wants to get rid of the battery isolator

Quote:
Originally Posted by SFH View Post
Thanks Rom

I can see that the combiner solution might be a good solution if the banks are within a few feets from each other but in my case two banks are next to each other while the third on is more than 30FT from the two other.

My concern is the voltage drop in the 2x30FT of cable which results in under-charging of the third bank in the bow

Regards
Steen
The remote bank will NOT be undercharged.

The 30 ft run is no problem, the batteries will still reach full charge when using a Yandina Combiner100. As the batteries charge the current drops and is nearly zero at end of charge. The drop along the 30 ft charging line is calculated as amps x resistance. Resistance is fixed but as the amps drop to zero the voltage drop also goes to zero. In the early stages the charging current may be a little slower, typically extending charging time by a few minutes.
__________________
Andina Marie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-05-2015, 08:54   #29
SFH
Registered User
 
SFH's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Danish
Boat: Jeanneau Yacht 53
Posts: 75
Send a message via Skype™ to SFH
Re: Need to charge three banks but wants to get rid of the battery isolator

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andina Marie View Post
The remote bank will NOT be undercharged.

The 30 ft run is no problem, the batteries will still reach full charge when using a Yandina Combiner100. As the batteries charge the current drops and is nearly zero at end of charge. The drop along the 30 ft charging line is calculated as amps x resistance. Resistance is fixed but as the amps drop to zero the voltage drop also goes to zero. In the early stages the charging current may be a little slower, typically extending charging time by a few minutes.
Thanks Andina Marie

I will two some voltage checking at both end next weekend at the Cristec splitter and at the remote battery bank.

The OPTIMA RED TOP batteries are four years old but would have expected them to last longer - even when they are supporting a 11.5hp bovtruster

Steen
__________________
SFH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-05-2015, 09:07   #30
Marine Service Provider

Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: South Carolina
Boat: Philip Rhodes Custom
Posts: 395
Re: Need to charge three banks but wants to get rid of the battery isolator

Hmm. I assume the bow thruster is 12 volt. A 24 volt thruster would be considerably more efficient but then you have the problem of charging from a 12 volt alternator.

We are in the prototyping stage of a beefed up version of our Trollbridge24 that will charge a 24 volt battery at up to 150 amps from 12 volts by putting the batteries in parallel and run a 15 horsepower 24 volt thruster or winch with automatic series/parallel switching. We are seeking a field test site if anyone has this situation and would like a freebie.
__________________

__________________
Andina Marie is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
battery

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
3 Battery banks and 1 MPPT charge controller? MBLittle Electrical: Batteries, Generators & Solar 32 17-09-2017 10:04
Battery Isolator with Battery Drain Bensigler Electrical: Batteries, Generators & Solar 83 28-11-2011 13:50
How to Wire a Battery Isolator with a Three Wire Alternator ? bazzer Electrical: Batteries, Generators & Solar 7 05-12-2010 13:47
What Is the Best Way to Charge Two Battery Banks? bobfnbw Electrical: Batteries, Generators & Solar 11 20-11-2009 04:40



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 15:48.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.